Omisade Burney-Scott
Like many people in 2015, I was excited to read journalist and Howard University Alumni Ta-Nehisi Coates' memoir, "Between the World and Me". In this memoir, Coates writes a letter to his then-teenage son about being Black in the United States.
I listened to it on Audible, crying, laughing and nodding my head — sometimes from a place of deep knowing, and sometimes from a place of awe and introspection. There was one thing in particular that Ta-Nehisi said that landed in my hands like a dynamic truth: "Black people love their children with a kind of obsession. You are all that we have, and you come to us endangered. I think that we would like to kill you ourselves before seeing you killed by the streets that America made." This statement took my breath away.
He then goes on to say, "It was only after you that I understood love. That I understood the grip of my mother's hand. She knew that the galaxy itself could kill me. That all of me could be shattered, and all of her legacies spilled upon the curb like bum wine."
I've been someone's parent for 31 years. More specifically, I have been the parent of two extraordinarily beautiful Black sons. One age 31, and one soon to be 15. They have experienced my personal evolution of what parenting free Black children can look like, inside of a society that often refuses to see their humanity — without creating a violent, carceral environment inside of my home. An environment born out of fear or outdated notions of parenting teased through the trauma of our own family.
This is Embodied, I'm Omisade Burney-Scott.
Gabriel Hannans
Hi, I am the Indomitable Black Man, also known as Gabriel. What I found to be the most rewarding thing about gentle parenting is the level of critical thought that it teaches children, and the level of empathy it also teaches. However, the most challenging aspect of gentle parenting is the amount of patience you have to have to deal with a lot of the gaps in understanding the information that comes with teaching a child that is on earth for the first time and doesn't know these concepts. And the biggest thing I've learned is how to effectively communicate — how to bring a concept down to their level in a way that they can unpack it. And it works not just with children, but it works with any relationship I have with anyone. And the biggest thing that I've unlearned is thinking that I have to yell or hit a child in order to get them to do what I'm asking them or to teach a concept. I haven't had to do that in my tenure of working with children professionally. And the fact that we have to unlearn that, I think is insane. But now that I know that I don't have to do it, and I can teach other people how to raise their kids without doing it, I think it's also the most beautiful thing.
Omisade Burney-Scott
The Indomitable Black Man is one of many people on social media putting out content around gentle, conscious or intentional parenting. Just like there's no catch-all phrase, there is no official definition or doctrine for this type of parenting. But in growing numbers on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube and parenting blogs, parents are sharing their interpretation of what it means to step away from a more authoritarian parenting style.
Trina Greene
I appreciate that gentle parenting acknowledges children's, like, developmental stages, right? So that you can understand where your children may be, what their challenges are, what their limitations are, what their gifts are, what their strengths are. It really invites you to really see your child as whole, and to meet them where they are, and to have, like, age-appropriate expectations and conversations with them.
Omisade Burney-Scott
That's Trina Greene. She's the founder of Parenting for Liberation, a virtual community that supports Black people raising Black children through culture, equity and justice.
Trina Greene
For me — I always, you know, put a little Black spin on it. And so what I feel like I'm practicing is gentle parenting plus — which is what I've been calling liberated parenting. Because gentle parenting looks at, how do we interrupt some of our old habits and intergenerational trauma in the inside of our homes? In our relationships with our children? And liberated parenting — the work that I do is really about how do we do the both-and of — of making sure that we don't, as you say, create carceral systems within our homes, but then how do we also make sure that we're fighting against those systems outside of our homes? So that our children can be those gentle humans that we've created, and like, they can thrive in the world.
Omisade Burney-Scott
A great question, but before we get in too far, I want to acknowledge that there's a lot of reactionary skepticism when we say "gentle parenting." Which is why some parents choose different words to describe what they're doing. Like Destiny Bennett. Destiny is the mother of three boys and a wife of 10 years. She's a digital content creator, and we'll link her TikTok and Instagram in the show notes.
Destiny Bennett
Before I started sharing, I actually didn't know that there was a term for this. I went to school for early childhood development. So, when I started practicing it I started practicing quote-unquote "early childhood development." The terms started becoming popular I want to say in the last maybe four years. And so, the first term I heard was gentle parenting. And I started to use that term. And, especially in the Black and brown communities, I started getting a lot of criticism about the term "gentle." "Well, you know, the world is not gentle for our children. You know, we shouldn't be parenting our children in a gentle way. That doesn't work for our children."
And so, despite the fact that that's not what the term means, I felt like because that was the response when people heard it, that something different was needed there. Especially for those that had no idea what gentle parenting even was. And so, I went through all the different terms of conscious parenting. And when I stumbled on intentional parenting, that was like — I feel like that's perfect, because — everything done with intention. Like, that's all about who I am as a parent. That's how I identify. It's about — not just doing things because your parents did it that way or your grandparents did it that way. Oftentimes, we operate in that state of mind. And we don't actually know why we do things the way we do with our children, other than it's that's just how it's been done. And so when I started getting out of that mindset, and I started actually creating the life I wanted to have with my children, and parenting my children in the way that I want it to parent them — despite my generational patterns, despite society — I had to be very intentional about that. And so that's why that is my choice of terminology.
Omisade Burney-Scott
I really appreciate you sharing that. I know that you had your oldest son when you were in your early 20s. And I'm curious about your parenting approach at that time. And I'm also curious about that for you Trina, too. So, I'm going to come back and get you. But Destiny, how would you describe your parenting approach when you first became a parent?
Destiny Bennett
My parenting approach has definitely changed. I can say that when I became a parent I knew immediately that there were certain aspects of my childhood and my parents' parenting that I did not want to implement. So that was clear from the beginning. But I can definitely say that I was not the person I am today. I always tell people, like, my oldest definitely did not get the best of me. So I'm trying to give him all of the best of me now. Because when he was little I was young. And even though I was, you know, starting to implement what I was learning in early child development, I was still in college, I was still learning. And so, there were a lot of my generational, like — toxic generational habits that I was just doing it because that's what I knew to do. I can say that he's my only child that I actually popped him a few times. And I feel so bad every time I'd say that.
Omisade Burney-Scott
I understand that feeling. I've had this conversation with both my boys around them having different parents. And — I also want you to be a little more kind to yourself about your parenting, that you were evolving. So, there was no failure at the beginning. You were in an evolutionary process. I want to pull Trina in here, because I'm curious about your perspective as well. And like — when did you become aware of gentle parenting practices? And how did that show up for you in the decisions that you've been making around how you want to parent your children?
Trina Greene
Yeah, so I'll join you both in radical honesty and transparency. I also did not start off as a liberated parent. I also started off, you know, making mistakes and feeling, you know, really hard on myself. Because since my child was born I worked in a nonviolent organization, a domestic violence organization. And I had a commitment to nonviolence. And I realized as I was parenting — he was born in '09, so we had our first Black president, right? And things were changing. And simultaneously, white supremacy was still at play —even more so. And so, the fear that I had at the time of raising a Black boy — I felt like how Ta-Nehisi Coates was in his book, and how you said in your introduction, I had a lot of fear. And that fear led me to do things that were not in alignment with my values. So I also am a parent who admits that, like, I popped him a couple of times when he was younger and I felt so torn.
And so, that's what made me go on this journey of discovering Parenting for Liberation is because I was like, "I know logically that this is not the right step, I'm being told by my elders that I have to teach this boy to be in check and how to listen to me and make sure he respects me." You know, I grew up in the church and I was a single Black mom, I was in my 20s. So, I'm getting all this feedback from, you know, people in my community that are my elders who are saying, like, "You have to nip this in the bud," for example. But I also am, like, working in the movement around nonviolence. And I'm like, "How do I marry the two of these?" Because my values know that there's nothing I can do to keep my son in check, quote-unquote, that's gonna prevent white supremacy from showing up. And so, why am I trying to intentionally, like, push him to fit him in a box or make him play small so that I can keep him safe?
I realized that nothing I could do to shift — to limit him was going to keep him safe. That the only way I can keep him safe was to be advocating out in the streets and in the world to make sure that the world would see him as a Black boy, right? And so, instead of me trying to put the onus of racism on this little child who's innocent, and trying to hold him to these high expectations about how to show up and how to be safe — I saw it having an impact on him and his sense of self. And that's what really made me change. Because I saw him doubting himself. Like, "Oh, you can do that." He's like, "Are you sure I can do that? Is that okay?" And I'm like, "Oh, I've been giving you these messages, that you can't do things and you have [more] limited access than your peers who are around you. And I don't want to create that message." And so, [I'm] just really intentionally trying to make shifts. And so, I haven't been perfect, I'm still not perfect. I asked him yesterday, I said, "Hey, I'm doing a podcast about gentle parenting. How I'm doing, am I good?" And he's like, "Yeah, you're good, you're good." I'm like — [Laughs]
Omisade Burney-Scott
And that's the best endorsement that you need.
There's a lot of fear around gentle parenting. That you are going to somehow raise a child without boundaries, without rules, without regulations. And I would love for you to share an example of how gentle parenting actually does include discipline, and respect, and consequences for your own actions. But without physical punishment.
Trina Greene
Yeah, I think you're right. There is a lot of fear and skepticism. I think Destiny said it earlier, where a lot of folks in our community believe that we can't parent our children in gentle ways because the world is not going to be gentle with them. And — and I always counter that, well, how do we make our space that we are cultivating for them a safe space? A space where they can practice and where they can challenge us and ask all the questions and have different opinions. And so, for me an example is, I'm like, fully getting settled into teenage parent land.
Omisade Burney-Scott
Welcome, welcome. [Laughs]
Trina Greene
Oh baby. Whew, Sheesh. It's beautiful to see my son, like, become who he is. And that can come up against, you know, as a parent, I'm like, "Here's what I think you should do." So the most recent example, because — when I tell you it's an example every day. [Laughs] We're in summer break. I wanted him to go to summer school because, to me, it was a smart strategic decision. Because you get, you know, you get the class done in two weeks and it's online. And then it, like, gives you a little bit more space in your school calendar during the school year. You know, we had already signed up for summer. He had, you know, begrudgingly said yes.
And then it was, like, the week before, and we were looking at the schedule. And he's like, "Wow, I have a lot on my plate." And I'm like, "Dude, let's talk about the consequences of that decision. If you don't do summer school, what are the consequences? And what are the impacts for yourself in the school year?" And we talked through it, and he understood the consequences. He was like, "I understand I won't have an elective. I understand I won't have a fun class or an easy class during the school year. I understand that I'm going to limit how many like, free choices I have during the school year." But he's like, "You know what, during the school year, Mom, I understand that school is school." So, he's like, "I'll just be focused on school and have no fun class." And so he's like, "I understand the consequence." And I was like, "Okay. At this point this is your decision." For me, it was an opportunity for him to, like, be able to articulate his position. Be able to, like, show that he had [a] clear understanding of the choice that he was making. And for me, I'm preparing him for adulthood. Because he's gonna have to make these type of decisions for himself. And I can't just be, like, "This is what you should do, because I think it's the smart thing to do." And you know, the infamous "Because I said so."
Omisade Burney-Scott
Because I said so. I was thinking —
Trina Greene
We don't do that. [Laughs]
Omisade Burney-Scott
You made a — you made a real departure from the ubiquitous Black parent "Because I said so." Which is not necessarily just for Black parents. And how have you rethought your own experiences as a child and how you are parenting now, that gives that kind of foundation for your children to think critically? Which feels very different to me than being feral and just kind of, running amok.
Trina Greene
Yeah, so gentle parenting is not like your kids just have a free-for-all and they do what they want. It's funny because I feel like, in gentle parenting, as Gabriel said, like, it takes a lot of patience and it takes a lot of time. You know how many times I gotta talk about the things with my child? So it's not just like, "You're free," it's not. It's like you're actually more knee deep in it with your child, because now you're like engaging them into decision-making. Which, you know, when you engage another person in decision-making, instead of just doing it from the top-down, it's much more complex and much more nuanced. You know, when I was a child, I was — ooh, I had a mouth on me. I had ideas, I had thoughts, I knew what I wanted to do. And so, I'm getting a little of that with my child. I was thinking I wasn't gonna get it, you know, but you know, karma is beautiful. [Laughs]
Omisade Burney-Scott
Ain't it? Surprise, surprise. I want to —
Trina Greene
Surprise.
Omisade Burney-Scott
I want to dive in real quickly here with Destiny around something that I'm very curious about. Because she's talked about going knee deep with your kids, Trina. And, like, how in that knee deepness you meet up with some of your old selves, you know, your old — yourself as a child. How you thought you were going to parent at the beginning. And I'm wondering Destiny, for you, as you started this journey, were there any kind of triggers that came up for you that reminded you of your childhood? Or some things that you were like, I need to remember this, because I don't want to replicate this, or I need to remember this because this was a good thing and I can incorporate that.
Destiny Bennett
Number one, I was raised by a single mom. My father was in and out of my life for most of my life until he passed away in 2017. And so, my mother was a wonderful mother — is a wonderful mother, she's still here. As I started parenting, I did not realize how alike we were. And it was like, so many of those moments where it's like, "Oh God, I sound just like my mother, when I said that." Those are the moments — when I found myself sounding like my mother, it would thrust me back into my childhood to the moments that I sounded like her. When it was like, things that I didn't like, or things that, you know, I remember thinking to myself, like, "Gosh, I wish she wouldn't do that. I wish she wouldn't say that." Those are the moments that I really found my myself connecting with my inner child and be like, "You know what, I need to change this. You know, these are things that are — just kind of have become a part of me that I need to change." And that was the majority of, like, the inner healing that I had to do. But I didn't even realize I had it until I had children. I had packed it so deeply away that it just started to, like, pour out of me as I started to take this journey.
Omisade Burney-Scott
There are a lot of notions around what parenting looks like culturally. I'm wondering for you, Trina, if the concept of gentle parenting, which I assume that a lot of people associate with white families, kind of feels like an antithesis to Black parenting. But you wrote an article for L.A. Parent that tough love in Black families is not passed down from ancestors in Africa, it's actually a result of colonialism and white supremacy. Can you talk more about that and how you've tried to reclaim the practices that are based on Black ancestral parenting?
Trina Greene
Yeah, so, I had the privilege of going back to Ghana during the year of the return in 2019. And I went there, you know, for my own personal healing journey and to connect with my ancestral roots. But also to learn about parenting on the continent. And I learned that African traditions are really about like, similar to gentle parenting, like, having the children be a part of everything. That there was no such thing as, like, the children are too little to kind of be in this conversation. They were like, "That's the way children learn, they have to be with us in the kitchen, they have to be with us out in the work, they have to be around us," and — and that children are treated as sacred. And that children are seen as community children, right?
And so, as the conversation around gentle parenting started to come up, you know, it's often been associated as like a white parenting thing. And that tough love or like, being harsh, or, you know, hard on our children is a Black thing. And you know, I've been doing research and learning that that's actually not a Black way of being and in my personal experience going back, but also in my research, that those practices that are tough love whether they be weapons or spankings or yelling or controlling or dominating our children are not actually ancestral ways of parenting. They're not even Black, right? Those are things that were taught to us. And Dr. Joy DeGruy talks about post traumatic slave syndrome. She talks about how we have to unlearn those maladaptive behaviors. Those — those were parenting styles that we picked up during our enslavement, during a very harsh time for us, in order to keep our children safe. But the conditions are not the same. So we have to unlearn those habits. And so, for me, I think it's really about how do we unpack the intergenerational trauma that is being passed down through our parenting? And how do we actually look at it, right? Do the research of it and realize, like, that's actually not the way that we began our parenting journey. And how can we unlearn that and let some of that go?
Omisade Burney-Scott
The unlearning is so critical. I really appreciate that. That's, like, one of the, I don't know, hallmarks of my parenting. It feels like a lot of unlearning. And I know, Destiny, you've written a whole book about breaking generational trauma in families. And I would love for you to share some of the tools and tactics that you have used to recognize generational trauma inside of your own parenting and not repeat it.
Destiny Bennett
There's so many. [Laughs] And I know we don't have time to go over all of them. But one of my favorite tools that I've learned through this journey I'll say that I probably use the most is "connect and then correct." When my children are having a tantrum or they're just, you know, misbehaving or whatever took place, I always take the time to connect with them first, before I correct them. Number one, because when they're in a state of mind when they're upset, or you know, they're overstimulated, they're not in a place to be able to receive my correction. I'm talking in one ear, and it's going out the other because in that moment they just need to regulate their emotions. They're not mentally prepared to hear my advice, or what they should have did right, or what they did wrong. And I started out doing it that way: lecturing them, telling them what they did wrong, why they shouldn't have done that, put them in timeout, disconnecting from them — and then not understanding why it wasn't working for me. And so it's one of those things where I feel like people often combat it because they're like, "Well, you're rewarding that child, why are you holding him? Why are you hugging him when he just broke that plate or, you know, he just threw a tantrum, and you're gonna reward him with love?" Love is not a reward. Love is my responsibility as a parent to my child. And so I found that that's been the most critical thing is taking that moment to connect with them. And then when they're ready, when they're stable, when they're regulated, then we can talk about, "How do we correct this? What happened? What can we do to make this better than next time?"
Anonymous Listener
One of the most challenging, but also most rewarding parts of gentle parenting for me has been the way it has helped me re-parent my own inner child. I grew up, you know, at a time when benign neglect and coming home and being a latchkey kid was very common. And not that there's anything wrong with that, but it did not work out well for me. And when I'm parenting my children through extremely difficult emotional situations, I often have memories of myself experiencing those situations. And I sit with my child, I sit with myself and work through these things together with compassion and empathy for one another. And it's been really healing for me. This has also been very difficult. It's extremely difficult to control your own trauma response in the middle of a meltdown, so to speak. But it shows a lot of resilience and has made me feel very proud of myself.
Omisade Burney-Scott
I too have been on a consistent journey to understand myself as a person, as a parent, by examining my relationship with my parents and the relationship I have with my children. That happened through conversations with my closest friends and my sister circle, my therapist — shout out to good therapy. And these ongoing conversations remind me that we all have an origin story that gives context to how our parents or caregivers shaped who we are as people. And how those people influence our parenting style choices. And while that can be difficult, it offers a space for healing and reconciliation.
The context for my personhood is that my parents were older Black folks born during the Great Depression in the Jim Crow South of Eastern North Carolina. They were teenagers during World War II and came of age in a time that was unsafe and wildly transformative for Black folks. It was a time that it seemed like the world might be coming to an end in so many ways.
I didn't and I don't think that the ways that my parents raised my siblings and myself was abusive. I do see the generational and cultural impacts of their upbringings on the choices they've made. The messages that we receive from our parents were, "We love you, you can be anything you want to be." But also, "Emotions are not safe to express inside or outside of your family. And we will do whatever it takes to keep you safe."
As my political and cultural worldviews expanded and deepened, impacting my life choices and my growing family, I still needed to unlearn some of the trauma-driven ways of my parenting that my parents modeled for me. It has taken raising two Black sons to give me perspective on parenting. Particularly the parenting practices I want to pass on in the cycles I want to break. And of course, someone who was on the front row of my growth as a parent is my eldest son, Ché Nembhard.
Ché Nembhard
There were times where I would, as a kid, push boundaries or tried to take advantage of situations, especially as an only child, right? Like, I had a very specific mindset that was very "main character," as they say these days. Where I probably felt as though I was owed some sort of attention that maybe I didn't always get, which would get annoying. And I think your reaction as someone who's in your early 30s is to deal with it the best you can, but everyone has a limit to patience. And I don't think I ever felt that you responded in some, like, egregious way. I think that I was always — and looking back, like, I definitely felt bad about it. Or I definitely was curious as to how far I could get to the edge of, like, you having a little miniature meltdown before I was like, "Oh, that was too far." Like, you're equally my parent, but also my, like, first friend because I didn't have anybody else to hang out with like that. Like, I hung out with you all the time. So, you know, you test your friends, you play with your friends, you kind of annoy your friends. So I think — but then you're also the parent. So there's this, like, boundary by which, you know, I was, like, trying to understand that separation. And, but — as an adult though I feel like now I recognize you're probably always trying to figure that separation as well of like —
Omisade Burney-Scott
No, I was. And that was — I don't feel like I was always doing a good job of — a story that kind of sticks out for me in my mind, which you maybe — maybe don't remember is when you were about 2 years old, I decided that I wanted to take you to church. And I got you dressed up and put product in your hair and you were looking so cute. And we got to church and it was time for praise and worship. And as soon as they started playing the music, it overstimulated you immediately. And you kind of, like, bugged out a little bit and started screaming at me that it was too loud. And I felt like all I could feel in that moment was a heat of embarrassment of the older kind of Black church moms looking at me like I couldn't control my kid. And so I thought it'd be a great idea to get down low in your ear and grit through my teeth to tell you to shut up. Which of course your response was, "Shut up is a bad word." And you started screaming that at me, and then I decided to make matters worse is that I would pinch your arm.
Ché Nembhard
Yeah, you were a pincher.
Omisade Burney-Scott
I was definitely a pincher. And I grabbed the soft meat under your arm and pinched it. To which your response was, "You pinched me," and kind of stretched out. And so, we left. We, like — we went home, I put you in the car, you immediately fell asleep. We went to Nana's house, and I brought you in and put you in the bed and I sat down looking defeated. And I was about to cry. And she asked me, "What happened?" And I told her and she said two things to me that really stood out. And this was not too soon before she would, you know, make her transition to become an ancestor. She said, "Don't yell and don't hit." And I don't think I immediately took that on. But then over a period of time, I decided that I needed to figure out a different way of parenting and so here we are. Do you remember that?
Ché Nembhard
I don't. I remember the gritting teeth and the pinching. I think — I mean it — look, I hold no judgment. I was — I was a little tornado of a kid. I remember that pretty clearly. That I had a lot of energy and a lot of reactions to any type of stimuli. But to Grandma's point, I think you didn't have to yell for me to understand the seriousness of the situation. So I believe that the talking through gritted teeth continued on, because that's, you know, you don't have to yell for that.
Omisade Burney-Scott
Well, you know, you turned 31 back in March and —
Ché Nembhard
Woof. Yeah, I did.
Omisade Burney-Scott
You did. You're grown-grown. Not even a little grown, grown-grown. And parenting an adult is very different from parenting a kid. So I'm curious as to how you would describe how our relationship has evolved now that you are an adult, and you're living away from home and all those things. And you're also still a big brother to your younger brothers who really look up to you.
Ché Nembhard
I mean, one I think it's funny that — not funny, I think it's interesting that the term parenting — which it should I suppose until like, one of us goes — is like a thing that's going to be what it's called. Because in my mind, it feels like it's less parenting now and it's more like consulting. It's like I'm checking in with my, like, life coach kind of vibe. Which is a little different than parenting. I think there's things that I have to learn on my own which require less input or impact from your side because I've been kind of paving my own thing. I wouldn't want to ask you some question that makes you feel like — like you're put on the spot. Something that you maybe haven't experienced or done yet. Yeah. And I you know, so I don't want to like —
Omisade Burney-Scott
You know, what I do appreciate is that you invite me in into your life in different ways now as an adult. And you will say to me, "Look, Mom, I want to run something past you." And you know, I am a perpetual problem solver. I'll ask you, "What do you need for me in this moment?" And you'll be very clear with me, "I just need you to like, listen, so I can process." Or "No, I need you to brainstorm with me. I need like to think of some solutions." And then, you know, ultimately I just want you to know that I trust that, like anybody else who's growing and evolving and figuring things out, that you're going to make a choice that makes the most sense. That will keep you safe and protected and on the path that you feel really good about. And if things go awry, that you'll come back to me and we'll process that too.
Ché Nembhard
Do you think that you instituted gentle parenting during my stint, like, living at home?
Omisade Burney-Scott
Not your stint. [Laughs] Your stint.
Ché Nembhard
My stint, my run.
Omisade Burney-Scott
[Laughs] Your run.
Ché Nembhard
Right.
Omisade Burney-Scott
Do you think I — did you see a shift? Did you see a shift?
Ché Nembhard
I mean — even in the prep call for this conversation I was asking your colleague, just the idea of like, how do you define gentle parenting in general? Just because it seems like there's such a spectrum into understanding, like, parenting techniques in the first place. So I don't know if there's a base level for you? Or was there? Maybe that's a good question. Was there a base level for you of what it means to practice gentle parenting that you think you tried, and then maybe ramped up a little more with Taj? Or? Yeah.
Omisade Burney-Scott
I think that the gentle parenting or intentional parenting started to present itself more, definitely as you got into your teenage years. And then when we had Taj I was like, "Ah, you know, this is a big deal to parent somebody who's, like, getting ready to graduate from high school and a little person." And so, like, how am I showing up for both of them in ways that is loving, meaningful, clear, intentional, all those things. And I think also, as you were getting ready to go off to college, I was even more present with the fact that I was not going to be there with you. And I wanted to have my voice live in your mind in a positive way. I wanted my love to live in your body in a positive way. I didn't want you to think, "When I think about my mom, I don't want to talk to her, it's gonna be a pain in the butt." So yeah, I think that's where that kind of line or that boundary came up for us. And we also have a huge blended family. I don't know if you have any thoughts about how we show up as a family, like, taking care of each other and gentle parenting playing a role in that.
Ché Nembhard
I've noticed that everyone is constantly learning. Maybe you were the — definitely the innovator of this type of style of parenting within this microcosm of — of adults. I think people have kind of followed your way of doing it as time went on. Being the firstborn, I was definitely, you know, the — the prototype test for these other younger men following me. I think that I can see how parenting with them is probably a different experience than it was with me. Just — just in how they act or how they experience their own sense of like, understanding of authority or of like, self. And I don't think it's just parenting. Obviously, there's an environmental factor to these traits as well. But—
Omisade Burney-Scott
How your brothers show up? Yeah?
Ché Nembhard
Sure.
Omisade Burney-Scott
Well, and I would also tip my hat to you for being willing to bushwhack a path for them to follow, I think in a really beautiful way. I want to close out our conversation today by asking you, how do you want to be a parent?
Ché Nembhard
I don't know, I want to be a parent that doesn't necessarily consider having a child some sort of, like, accessory or some sort of, like, additional part of my life. I want to be a parent who thinks about the child as this new unique expression of life in the universe that gets to do its own thing that I can help. When you think of, like, guiding water, you know, you put like a stone here, or you like change the direction here a little bit, but water is going to be water, right? It's gonna run over things. It's going to run through things. But you can help as much as it allows you to. And I would hope that, like, my experience as a parent for that child is similar to that, in that it's not constricting or damming, their flow or their — their growth. It's — it's just kind of helping to, like, smooth the way in a way that feels natural and conducive to them being their own person.
Omisade Burney-Scott
Embodied is a production of North Carolina Public Radio-WUNC, a listener-supported station. If you want to lend your support to this podcast and other WUNC's other shows on demand, consider a contribution at wunc.org now. Incredible storytelling like you hear on Embodied is only possible because of listeners like you.
This episode was produced by Kaia Findlay and edited by Amanda Magnus. Paige Perez also produces our show. Skylar Chadwick is our intern and Jenni Lawson is our sound engineer. Quilla wrote our theme music.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this episode, and you can learn more about gentle and intentional parenting in our show notes.
I'm Omisade Burney-Scott sitting in for Anita Rao. If you need something to listen to next, you can check out my podcast, Black Girls' Guide to Surviving Menopause. Our latest episode is a wrap up of our recent visit to the United Kingdom.
Until next time, thanks for listening to "Embodied."