Anita Rao 0:02
My partner and I have been together for almost seven and a half years, which means that like many people in long-term relationships, we know that a thriving sex life doesn't just happen on its own. It requires effort and intention. And while I talk to people about sex and intimacy a lot for my job, I am not always great at putting the things I learn into practice. I know what we need to do. And I even know that our future selves will be happier if we do it. But oftentimes, it is just way easier to Netflix and chill. But like not in the euphemism kind of way - literally watch Netflix and fall asleep on the couch. So how do you practically keep the spark alive, and do it in a way that feels fun and sustainable? That's what we're gonna get into today.
This is a special episode from Embodied, our show about sex, relationships and health. I'm Anita Rao.
The show was going to be a little different from our usual vibe, because I'm going to put some of my own burning questions about long-term relationships and desire to someone who thinks about this topic a lot. Her name is Jordyn Hakes. And she's the host of the podcast "The Horny Housewife." She loves dishing out advice, and does so with a lot of openness about her own relationship with her body and intimacy. Jordyn, welcome to Embodied.
Jordyn Hakes 1:29
Hello, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to chat.
Anita Rao 1:33
So we are having this conversation right around Mother's Day, a time when we celebrate and remember those who play mothering roles in our lives. And I know that your mom played a big part in the journey to you starting this podcast. You started it in late 2020, and it was inspired in part by some thoughts and feelings you had after your mom died. Tell me more about what was going on in your life and, and your mom's role in helping get this started for you.
Jordyn Hakes 1:59
So I lost my mother very shortly after my 30th birthday. And it was not something anyone was expecting. She was 57, very healthy, you just - it wasn't like she was sick and we had some time to say goodbye, which losing a parent no matter how it happens is obviously a devastating thing that, you know, takes processing and grief, is it's whole - tt's a whole journey, obviously, and it's not a straight line. It's definitely not linear. But I think I had like a radical shift in perspective. And I looked inward and realized that everything that I thought I wanted or what was going to make me air quotes happy, maybe was more like what was ingrained in me versus what I was actually desiring to do in my life. And losing my mom, I think it was like, okay, life, life is short. We're not guaranteed tomorrow. And I wasn't like, screw everything and go do whatever I wanted. But it made me reassess. I was reassessing. And I was like, okay, so stay-at-home mom gig, love it, grateful, hashtag blessed. But also, I wanted to do something for myself really badly. And thus "The Horny Housewife" was born. And you know, it had an evolution. And it figured itself out. But we're still standing today, three years later, doing great.
Anita Rao 3:35
So why was getting on a mic and talking about sex and intimacy the thing that you felt like called to you. Like what led you to that in specific?
Jordyn Hakes 3:45
Well, I think my mom, like you said, seeing her relationship with my dad. She was definitely a buffer and like, losing her, you know, that buffer was removed, and I got to see my father in a different light for sure. But growing up, my perspective as their daughter, and them being like, you know, modeling behavior of what a relationship air quotes again should look like. I think they did a pretty damn good job. Like I saw two parents who really continued to choose one another. And I think that kind of stuck with me. And I just really don't want - some call it insatiable - but I do not want a mediocre marriage. I really want a relationship that is rewarding, that I get to experience the kinds of pleasure that I want to experience in my short life. So I - my passion was talking about relationships and things that a lot of people maybe don't find it easy to talk about. It's not comfortable. Maybe it's taboo. Maybe they grew up with a lot of shame around it. And I thought, there's probably a ton of married people who want to talk about sex and the good, the bad, the ugly just as much as me. And so that's kind of how it came to fruition.
Anita Rao 5:04
So you've been married for about nine, nine-ish years. And a recurring theme on your show is, like we've been saying, sex in the long-term relationship. How do you walk the line between what you share about y'all's sex life and intimacy on your podcast and what you don't? Is that a conversation that you have offline with your husband? Like, how do you navigate that?
Jordyn Hakes 5:23
Totally. I mean, I think we have like, a, an unspoken boundary of respect, because, I mean, we definitely practice radical honesty in our marriage, which I'm sure I'll mention again, where, you know, if something - we kind of know what to expect from each other at this point. But we've definitely had conversations and I think it's important to keep some things private, especially if it's like a something that I'm still navigating because, again, you know, people listen to my podcasts that have been married 25 years and write in and I'm like, why are you even listening to me? I haven't even done it half as long as you have. But it is interesting how we can all get insight and perspective from one another. But I definitely talk way more about other people's marriages. Listener questions are a huge component in creating the content. But I will definitely relate and share some, but I definitely keep some things close to myself.
Anita Rao 6:25
What are the - some of the things that have helped you navigate kind of the ebbs and flows in your own long-term sex life? I feel like so much of the conversation around, like, intimacy and long-term relationships can be really, like, self-help hack-y, like, buy lingerie, go on a date night, like, take a vacation together, like,
Jordyn Hakes 6:46
Very - same thing over and over.
Anita Rao 6:49
Yeah. So what are some of the things that you feel like actually have worked in your own life? And how do you talk about this with all the listeners that are kind of writing to you about these questions?
Jordyn Hakes 7:00
For sure. I mean, I will say the older that I get - which I'm not old, okay, but I'm 34, and I should, I don't know why I tell people that, I should leave it a mystery - the older that I get, the more those cliche sayings that are like corny and cheesy, the more I'm like, it's so freakin true. Like, they're just, you get what you get, you know, you reap what you sow, and I'm a karma girl, I guess. And I think being intentional in your marriage is vital. Like you have to water your marriage, you have to take care of it. I think we're always growing and evolving. There's that cheesy saying that's like being with someone or choosing someone forever is attending a thousand funerals, like we're always evolving and changing and you choose that person. And I think that's totally, totally true. And I think that there are seasons where maybe you feel not on the same page, or you know, the career plate gets full, the life plate gets full. So your marriage is dependent on this intentionality. And if you want it to be something that you find rewarding, or you feel like, I feel connected, you're a safe space, you're my person still, then that's going to be required. And I hear from so many couples that just feel like they don't even know how to have the conversation. And I think it's that leap of faith of, are you going to just not talk about it and not do anything about it and nothing's going to change. So in my own experience, in my marriage, for us, I think it's important to stay curious together and what that looks like in our marriage is sometimes when we can't get a date night, we can't get out, we'll take a Beducated course, like we'll do something that kind of
Anita Rao 8:53
Wait, what is that?
Jordyn Hakes 8:56
Beducated?
Anita Rao 8:56
Yeah. What is that?
Jordyn Hakes 8:57
It's the Netflix of sexual wellness is what is, like, the analogy that I give. It's a, it's an online course platform. So and there's everything. This is turning into a Beducated ad, but there's everything like from squirting 101 or a dominance and submission, erotic spanking, all kinds of courses. And that's fun, because it's kind of, like arousing, and now it's kind of the pressure's off, so we get to decipher, did we like that or we into that? Were we not into that? That's a really fun date night, and date nights in general are vital for us.
Anita Rao 8:59
Let's talk about the kids piece because you're a mom and a stepmom. Your kids are 6 and, like, 14ish. What have been the seasons of your life as a mom where it's felt most difficult for you to be connected to both your own desire and to intimacy generally with a partner?
Jordyn Hakes 9:54
I think my answer may differ from a lot of people. I was ready get back to it. My hormones were doing, I don't know, jumping jacks, something. And I thought it was so hard to wait the six weeks to not have sex. But physically you cannot. You must wait, you should definitely wait. But it was for me when the kids got a little older, like when the kids, the sports and the all the things and the school. And we've been doing this for so long now, so you get in like an autopilot - I can't even imagine when they're full-blown teenagers, because we have to try even harder. And I really think mindset is so important. Like, if you look at the person as a chore, not good vibes. Sometimes you have to check yourself and be like, what kind of vibes am I bringing to the atmosphere? Am I, am I in a sour mood? Or am I always thinking negatively? Is there a mindset shift I can have? And sometimes there's something really, really there that I need to communicate, and not expect my husband to be a mind reader, because he's not. And then I'm gonna get more angry. So I think practicing like, hey, we have check-ins. If that's hard for you, there's templates, like, there's - you can go on Google and find a little worksheet printout. And it makes it really easy to say, "Hey, am I meeting your needs? Am I not meeting your needs?" Because kids can be soul-sucking. They can be.
Anita Rao 9:58
Yeah, that concept of like a relationship check-in, I feel like people always talk about that. And you're like, "Yeah, that sounds like a really good idea." You just have to actually do it and be intentional about following through versus...
Jordyn Hakes 11:32
Totally. And it's those, the little choices, like, they sound - it can sound silly, like scheduling sex can sound silly, right? I remember being 19 and being like, "No way, I'll never have to do that. My husband will just be obsessed with me." And you need to schedule sex. It's not, it's not that at all. I think it's actually more sexy. Because now I can build up the anticipation. Or we can write things on like a little post-its, and they're both agreed on ahead of time, and then someone can pull one and then that night, that's what we're doing. There's so many ways that maybe sound like, "Oh, it's a chore," but it makes it more fun, I think.
Anita Rao 12:22
Talk to me about the scheduling thing, like how do you all actually do it? Is it like, at the beginning of the week, you're like, "Okay, like, here are some times this week that could be fun," or is it much more informal?
Jordyn Hakes 12:34
It's much more informal. I mean, some couples send calendar invites on their phone. Some people, some couples I know it's very consistent and type A, but with us, it's more like this night, this time, or maybe there's something new I've been wanting to try. I always say like, have a monthly sexploration day, like a day of sex that's intentional, or whatever time you allot it. And then the rest can be maintenance sex, so that there's not this intense pressure of like, every time has to be cool and passionate, because that's, that's not realistic.
Anita Rao 13:15
Yeah.
Jordyn Hakes 13:16
Sometimes you're gonna have that maintenance sex. And that's fine.
Anita Rao 13:20
So you mentioned that postpartum was not a particularly difficult phase for you, but it is for a lot of people. And I think it's also just at any time you're experiencing like a body transition, not necessarily even postpartum. But it could be menopause or just like, a health change or a chronic illness. What advice do you give to people about keeping intimacy alive as your body changes, maybe in seasons where you're like, "No, I really don't want to be touched at all by you right now." Like, what do you recommend?
Jordyn Hakes 13:51
Right. Having empathy and grace on yourself. And I think being able to communicate, and I really encourage husbands to have a lot of compassion and empathy for their wives to whatever they're going through, because men go through it too. Like I know, in my own marriage - and my husband is comfortable with me sharing this - his hormones did a real nosedive after being on certain medication. And it took like a journey and him figuring out, why do I feel like this? Like why am I lacking drive and energy and all these things that I used to feel five years ago? And luckily, with the help of a clinic and his doctor, and it's been months, but he's finally got his hormones leveled out where he feels like himself, and that journey can look different for everyone. It can be holistic, it can be Western medicine, whatever floats your boat, but I do think acknowledging the reality of the situation, like how does this season impact my relationship and what are other ways we can feel connected. Like scheduling sex, going back to that, it doesn't have to be penetration every time you schedule times to be intimate. It could be, you know, being naked and laying together, it could be a massage and a conversation. It doesn't have to have this certain expectation on it every time. And that can be wonderful forms of intimacy.
Anita Rao 15:25
I think there are also periods in your life where, like, scripts that you have learned, or like, stories that you've told yourself about sex and your body can kind of come up unexpectedly. We've talked about purity culture before on our show, and people have been like, "Yeah, even like, you know, I might have been raised in that and thought I was totally free from those thoughts, and then decades later realized kind of how much that was still affecting me." I know that you grew up in purity culture, you wore a purity ring at one point, I've heard you talk about that. Does that come up for you? Like how and where did those messages show up now? How do you work work through that?
Jordyn Hakes 16:00
That's interesting, you bring that up, because I am in therapy right now and I'm actually - I just started doing EDMR. Which, if you don't know what that is, you can go on a Google search dive. But it's very, it's been very, lots of feelings, because I've had to write down like, 10 of my worst memories and 10 of my best memories to kind of like, have a little positive negative balance. But going back and seeing what helped shape and mold me and when all of that is just this hollow mold, where it's what people told me I was or core beliefs growing up for me in a certain religion. And I thought that was just, that was it. Like that was the only truth. And I didn't fit into - I didn't feel like I fit in. So then I felt shame. And I felt like oh, then I must not be God's child because I don't look or act like this. A lot of doubt in who I was. So going to therapy has been really beautiful for me. So although I was gifted a purity ring and did say I was married to Jesus for a short time, and then chunked that bad boy into a lake.
Anita Rao 16:14
(Laughs) Did you seriously?
Jordyn Hakes 16:43
I, you know, I - yeah, I said, "What am I doing? This is - I am not going to buy a car without test driving it. This is not logical for me." But I know for others, some might really - that could be really tough. And so I have, I have empathy for people that experience that but I think you should go to therapy.
Anita Rao 17:41
So the other piece of your work that I want to ask you about that, kind of, I guess is, is related to your work with "The Horny Housewife" because you offer it through your Patreon is erotica that you read. So I think you find things on Reddit and then you read pieces of it aloud. Tell me more about that process and like, why audio erotica?
Jordyn Hakes 18:06
Okay, so I, I've really become a fan. And it started more me being a people-pleaser. So, it was suggested, I read it at the end of an episode long time ago, maybe like the fifth episode, when I was kind of feeling out what was "The Horny Housewife" going to be, the format of the show, etc. And it was a big hit for some, people wanted more and more and more. And then others were like, "I just listened to the episode and I don't really go to that part, not my jam." So I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna create a space where I can just upload audio erotica, so the people that want it can get it all, hear new stories every week." And it's it's been very, very fun. And I've, I've kind of taken a liking into really, you know, getting into the characters. I get very emotionally invested in these stories now. And people have wrote into me and said it's a fabulous foreplay tool. Like one man said his wife will listen to the stories with headphones on, and he'll give her a massage - I don't know why they don't just listen to it together out loud, but she has headphones on. And he's like, by the time the story's done, she's rockin and ready to go. So hey, if it's a benefit, a pro in your relationship or solo, then it's a win for everyone. So some people just like to listen, I like to read it and then give a critique, like a little score at the end. Which if anyone's really aroused after listening to the story, I probably turn them off by going into my little critique of the show, but it's fun. I enjoy it.
Anita Rao 19:51
What do you think works really well versus doesn't work well in audio erotica? Like what are you rating badly when you're rating it badly?
Jordyn Hakes 20:01
I think I will give a low rating if it's not my favorite niche, but my five could be someone else's nine. So I always try to choose well-written erotica, like where we can get into it. And some people really appreciate a slow build, like a lot of you know, developing the plot and the characters and the tension. And I prefer like, really gettin to it, like, give us a quick, a little quick background and then get to the point. Like if I was, you know, reading "50 Shades of Grey" or watching it, I would just fast forward to the, to the good parts. So I think for me, a story is just bing bang boom. And I try to read genres that everyone loves, though. So not just for me, but for everyone. People request, some people have written me stories and asked me to read, but I have not done that, because usually they're very grammatically awful.
Anita Rao 21:04
That's fair. There has to be some some quality to the writing.
Jordyn Hakes 21:08
I have to be able to read it. Correct.
Anita Rao 21:11
So you've been doing this show now for many years, what almost four years.
Jordyn Hakes 21:17
Three.
Anita Rao 21:17
Three years, okay. What are like some of the things that you think about differently now than when you started. Like, whether it's stuff that guests have taught you or stuff that you've learned from your listeners - what comes to mind?
Jordyn Hakes 21:32
Oh, having guests on that rock my world. Lots of times I'll have a guest on and it feels like a little mini therapy session. And I love - or if they're giving great technique tips, it's something for me to try. But I think something that I don't - bittersweet, maybe, is receiving all this amazing knowledge, and then going about in my own relationship and being like, "You have the tools, you have the ability, and you're just being lazy, or you aren't practicing what you preach. You're not taking the advice you would give to another person." And that's not always the case. But I definitely have had to check myself and be like, practice what you preach. So I think that it's really allowed me to reflect on how I show up in my own marriage. My husband doesn't listen to it. And some people are like, "What? Your husband doesn't listen to the podcast?" But I kind of understand, because I'm a chatty, I'm a chatty person. So I don't know why he'd want to, like, leave the home, get in the car, turn on his wife's voice, go to work, leave, turn on his wife's voice, come home and hear his wife's voice. So I understand. I understand. But it's kinda like my safe little fun place. I don't talk crap about him. Mostly, I don't. But it is like my own little fun side space that he is oblivious, but very supportive about.
Anita Rao 23:04
I'd love to close on thinking about motherhood, it seems like your mom was a good role model for you in wanting a healthy sex life, wanting that kind of dynamic with your partner. What do you hope to impart to your own kids about sex and intimacy?
Jordyn Hakes 23:24
I want my child to know that his pleasure matters, and that I hope that whoever he is with also really prioritizes their own pleasure and is intentional. I hope that my sons feel safe, that I'm a safe space to go to. I just know that I didn't feel comfortable asking my parents at home, even though they were modeling beautifully. They really didn't know how to have that conversation with me. So I hope to have a sit-down conversation when we get there. Fourteen-year-old, that's already happened. But the little one, you know, that'll come in due time. And I hope that he feels safe to talk to mom and dad.
Anita Rao 24:11
I've been talking with Jordyn Hakes, the host of the podcast "Horny Housewife." Jordyn, thank you so much for the conversation.
Jordyn Hakes 24:18
Thanks so much for having me.