LAURA STASSI: 00:08
I'm Laura Stassi, and this is “Dating While Gray: The Grown-Up’s Guide to Love, Sex, and Relationships. It's the final episode of Season 4, and the final weeks of 2022. I tend to get a bit reflective this time of year. And as I reflect, I seek inspiration. I found some in the three stories we’re sharing on this episode: Love Seekers and Keepers.
I'm a regular reader of The New York Times’ Tiny Love Stories. That's the column where people submit essays of about 100 words. And one Tiny Love Story really stood out to me.
HUNTER: My name is Hunter, and I have lived in the Bay Area for about 30 years I've been a nurse for 15.
LAURA: Hunter is the author of the Tiny Love Story that caught my eye. He wrote that after he turned 50, and with a string of romantic disappointments behind him, he had given up on the idea he'd ever meet someone. And then he randomly met this man.
JOHN: My name is John, I'm a chef by trade. I'm currently unemployed. I've been in California for about 30 years, kind of worked my way up and down the West Coast.
LAURA: I tracked down Hunter and John to find out more, because you know how I love hearing about chance meetings. And surely theirs was actually much bigger than a “tiny” love story. Thankfully, Hunter and John were willing to share.
HUNTER: 01:36
I had been depressed for quite a long time and happened to be alone that Christmas. And a friend from AA invited me to a Christmas party. And I went, I made myself go. And I met John for about 30 seconds. And I just knew right away, there was something there. And I -- you know, it's like when you meet somebody new all, you know, you just get this little tickle or, you know, butterflies, or oh my god, I'm attracted to this person. And I had that about John. And really, our meeting was really brief. And we never even really talked to each other during the party. So that was the only, that was when we met. And when we left the party, I tried to cook up with him. I like begged the guy for his phone number. And he gave me his phone number. And I texted John. And he didn't get back to me, because other people had already gotten to him first.
LAURA: Other romantic potentials?
HUNTER: Yeah, yeah.
LAURA: So why did you only talk to him for just a brief period, like 30 seconds?
HUNTER: I wasn't feeling good. I wasn't really, you know, when you're depressed, it's kind of hard to put yourself out. So I tried to engage, but I just didn't have the guts to do it.
LAURA: And John, do you remember the first time you saw Hunter? Do you remember that party?
JOHN: I do. I do remember that party really well. It was right before I moved into the intentional community in San Francisco. And someone else who I'd been volunteering with at the soup kitchen invited me, as he knew I didn't really know many people. And it was a great party. It was a busy party. We like, played party games, Cards Against Humanity, stuff like that. And I remember meeting Hunter briefly. And then as I talked to other people, seeing him sitting there on the on the sofa in the living room with his hat on, then. I have a particular image of him sitting there from that party. But I was really beginning to come out of myself after being alone for a long time. In the end, I think I'd probably dated three or four people from that party over the next two years.
There was a neighborhood in San Francisco called The Castro and I would go to the gym there and go to the coffee shop afterwards and sit and read. And there were several times where I would see Hunter there. And we'd sit and chat and talk about what I was reading or what about what he was reading. He was in school at the time, I think, so he was doing a lot of studying and spending a lot of time at the coffee shop.
HUNTER: And we also talked about hiking, actually. And …
JOHN: Yeah.
HUNTER: … we really kind of came together, both with reading and our love of books and our love of science fiction, and our love of nature at that point. And I was like, oh my god, I have so much in common with this guy. I think once when we met in the coffee shop, I said, “Do you want to go out?” And he said, “I'm dating somebody” – again, and I just gave up. I was like, not again. And so we gave up.
And then I was camping in Yosemite with some friends. We did a camping trip every year. And they were annoying me. And I just decided to go hike by myself and I was gonna go to my favorite lake outside Tuolumne Meadows called Dog Lake. And I asked the ranger; I said, “Is there another lake like Dog Lake?” And they told me about Elizabeth Lake. And I went up to Elizabeth Lake and on the way back down, I ran into John on the trail. And I didn’t know. We didn't know it was each other because we had hats and scarves on. And we talked for a while. And then I don't know, I just knew that I felt like I knew him. And I said, “Do I know you?” And he said, “Is your name Hunter?” And it was like, “Oh, my god, John!” And I finally said, “Are you single? Can we go out?” And he said, “Yes.” And that's the first time I kissed him.
LAURA: Aw.
JOHN: Yeah.
HUNTER: Which was pretty brave. I just thought, you know what? I'm going to kiss this guy, and we’re going to do this.
JOHN: I was out on my annual solo backpacking trip and a friend had just dropped me off at Tuolumne, at the at the backpackers’ camp, and I was gonna be hiking out the next day. But I stopped at the ranger station. I said, “What can I do for a day hike?” And she recommended Elizabeth Lake, funnily enough. And I headed off on my way up the trail and saw Hunter coming down the trail. And as he says, we recognized each other after a little bit. And there was a, there was a kiss and a plan to move forward -- and proceeded out on my own for like five days, and I met another friend and was out for another six days. So when I get back to the city in September, we actually had our first real date.
LAURA: So you all started dating but then at some point, you had a hiccup.
JOHN: There was some learning, learning about trust issues, I think, or something. I was house-sitting for a friend and dog-sitting for a friend. And she was very open about me having guests and friends over, she knows I'm not the big party type. So she said, you know, “If you want to have your friend over, have your friend over.” And I invited Hunter over and he didn't want to come over. So.
HUNTER: Well, no I –
JOHN: Yes.
HUNTER: We went to a wonderful Thanksgiving dinner. And we got back there. And I, you know, I was still depressed, and I was still struggling with that. And I just, I was struggling to sleep, and I’d left my sleeping medication at home. And I don't know, it just got, it got away from me. And so we kind of broke up. But after like two months, we came back together as friends. And we weren't romantic at first. I knew I loved him. I was I was already all in. But I just didn't think it was going to be able to happen. So I thought, well, at least we can be friends. And then we became friends, and quite good friends. So that lasted for, god a year? Until we went to Barcelona?
JOHN: Yeah.
HUNTER: We went to Barcelona and then he hiked the Camino de Santiago, and even slept in the same bed as friends.
JOHN: Very traditional.
HUNTER: Right.
(Laughter)
HUNTER: He hiked the Camino for six weeks. And during that time, I was like I, you know, I need him back in my life. And I need him as a partner. And when he got back, we had the discussion. And we've been together ever since. It's been pretty solid.
LAURA: Part of me might be thinking, if it were me, like, “You know what? I think we're just better as friends, there might be too much drama being a romantic couple.” Did that cross your mind at all?
JOHN: You know, I don't remember thinking about it in that way. For me, it was an issue of trust, he didn't trust me to sleep with me or something like that. And so I kind of backed away for a while. And then when we started hanging out as friends, it was easier. And then we kind of learned more about each other. And there's, you know, everybody has idiosyncrasies and little things that they like and dislike, and you learn to work around that stuff.
HUNTER: And I want to add one more thing. You know, I think what I often see about people our age, you know, when I hear people say this a lot, is, you know, older people are set in their ways. We know who we are. We're like cement or something. And I think there may be some truth to that, but I don't think it has to be a barrier. And I think we're proof of that. I think, you know, we just needed to understand each other better.
LAURA: Yeah.
HUNTER: So yeah, we were, you know, both set in our lives in certain ways. And, but we had so much common interest. So I think we both knew there was something there to explore. And I'm I am not a religious person. I don't you know, now I've seen a lot of weird stuff in my life. I'm a nurse, you know, I've seen, I've watched people die. I've, I've seen people make miraculous recoveries. You know, we've all seen those things. We've all seen those things that we can't explain. But I don't like to attribute to anything but coincidence. But when I met John on that trail, I mean, there was a sense, a feeling. It was palpable to me of fate, of “Oh my god, this is meant to be; there's something here that I can't explain, and we are meant to be together.” And I keep having that feeling with John. I've had it now for years, that this is really meant to be. So yeah, so now, I mean, you know, fate is fate, and I own it, and I accept it and I embrace it.
JOHN: There's another part of it that I can't leave out. I found myself at some point back at the church. I'm Catholic, and I'm a practicing Catholic. And it doesn't seem like becoming a practicing Catholic would, would put me into a gay relationship. But I found a community that was really supportive of me and who I am. And I saw that it was possible, there were other people who were in relationships, and who were living good lives. I just think of all the epithets that have been thrown at me, and through my life. And this was all counter to that. It was all supportive, and we all supported each other.
And all those other people who were in relationships made me feel like I, you know, I can do this too, and I can be supported. And God doesn't want me to be alone. He wants me to be in a relationship. And I’m made the way I am. You know, I know a lot of people don't believe in that. But I feel really strongly that I'm created to be who I am. And there's a reason, and I'm not going to get to fulfillment without embracing who I am and how I am made.
LAURA: What a great story. Hunter and John got married in June and a few months after that, they took a honeymoon trip to Italy. They hiked and attended the opera. So is John and Hunter’s partnership a matter of good timing, wild coincidence, or fate? You probably know how I'm voting, especially when I tell you that after our interview, Hunter and I discovered that his cousin is married to my best friend from high school. It's like Hunter and I were destined to meet.
Speaking of fate, what happens when you're in a long-term relationship with someone who suddenly discovers something else is meant to be?
SUSAN: So the way I looked at it is, my husband died, and I was a widow…
BRI (Formerly Rick): It’s true.
SUSAN: … I really consider myself more of a widow than a divorcee. And then this like, really cool person came and helped me get through that first year. And then I woke up; I’m like, “Get out of my bed.”
(Laughter)
BRI (Formerly Rick): Not too far off.
(Laughter)
LAURA:
We'll hear from this couple after the break.
BREAK
LAURA:Do you remember Myspace? It was the social networking site before Facebook took over. Some people also made love connections on Myspace, though perhaps inadvertently. That's what happened with Susan and Rick. They were both in their early 40s at the time. Susan had never been married. Rick was divorced with two kids. He came across Susan's page. She was a writer and also sold health care products, and he reached out.
SUSAN: Rick's like, “Oh, I could really use that scalp conditioner. Can we … can we meet? I'm really interested in that.” And I was like, Oh, well, I can bring you some samples of that.” So we met at, uh -- Sweetwater –
BRI (Formerly Rick): Sweetwater, wasn’t it?
SUSAN: Sweetwater Café…
BRI (Formerly Rick): Yeah …
SUSAN: … one evening so I could give him the samples. And that was the beginning of it.
LAURA: Susan and Rick hit it off and within a year, they got married. That was in 2007.
BRI (Formerly Rick): I mean, we were very – I would describe it as just really profound partnership. You know, it's, we were both very supportive of each other's life goals and desires in whether that's helping each other with our businesses or exploring new hobbies, or whatever it was. It was very much a partnership moving through life -- and still is.
SUSAN: Yeah. So each other's cheerleaders.
BRI (Formerly Rick): Yeah.
LAURA: Then in 2020 – well, you know what happened in 2020,
BRI (Formerly Rick): COVID hits, it shuts down my business for three months, you know, government shut us down. And so I had a lot of time on my hands. And so I was doing a lot of walking in the woods, looking for mushrooms, and just thinking about what's going on in my life. And I had over the course of years, allowed myself to get much heavier, and not take care of myself as much. And I am cognizant of my previous battle with depression. So you know, it's like, why am I doing this? Why am I allowing myself to go to this, you know, physical deterioration?
And I think I went into the shower one day, and I just looked at myself, and I was like, “What the heck happened?” It's like, “Where did this old, hairy fat man come from?” So I was like, all right, so let's start. I'm gonna work on my weight. I was like, I was starting to feel a little bit better, but it wasn't like -- I still hadn't answered the question. And I knew it wasn't so much age. I'm okay with being older. I kind of like it. So it was down to hairy. So I was like, “Okay, I'll shave.” And then I was like, “Wait a minute, I can't stand this chest hair.” So I started shaving my chest hair, and I started feeling better.
I realized by the time like I'd shaved a lot of hair on my body at that point. I was like, okay, it's not the fat part, because it's not making me feel any better to get thinner. And the hair is gone. It makes me feel a little bit better, but it's still not how did I get to this point? And I realized, “Oh, wait a minute, it's not the old or the fat, or the hairy, it's the man part.”
LAURA: Mmm.
BRI (Formerly Rick): Once that seed was in there, I couldn't, like the door was cracked open, and the little things were starting to come out. And I realized, like, some of the memories from my childhood started resurfacing that you know, and the, you know, I had nightly dreams of waking up transformed, right? And being disappointed every morning. And, but I buried all that for most of my life.
SUSAN: Rick had been acting really strange for days, and I was kind of getting to the point where I didn't want to be in the same room.
BRI (Formerly Rick): Yeah.
SUSAN: So we walk our dog every morning, that was a habit that we had developed over COVID. So I'm trying to sneak out of the house with my dog. And so Rick wants to come and it's just like, you know, mwahp-mwahp-mwahp the whole time and was just being just, I can't really describe it, but just jittery and defensive and couldn't make decisions. And I was like, whatever, go home, you know, we don't have to walk together. And we were at the meditation gardens, walking around it. So after this, like, just go home, just we get to this place where you can go and you can sit on a bench and look at the water. And so he was like, “Can we just go sit there?” I'm like, “Fine.” So like, “Let's go meditate.” I'm like, “Well, I’ll meditate. You can sit there.”
Laughter
SUSAN: So we're sitting on the block. And so I'm sitting there, I'm like, “I'm meditating! I’m meditating!” I just want to go home. But after a few minutes, I realized that Rick was crying.
LAURA: Oh.
SUSAN: And I looked over and, and you know, that kind of changed everything. It’s like, what's going on? I knew whatever it was that was going on was about to come out. And I had no idea. I thought Rick was dying or wanting a divorce. I can't even remember the entire sequence of events. But I remember immediately feeling relief, because it was not the worst of the news.
LAURA: I think people listening to this will think, how can that be not the worst of the news? It changed your life.
SUSAN: Oh, hugely.
BRI (Formerly Rick): Radically.
SUSAN: I couldn't reach him. And I knew his history. I knew you know, what happened when Rick went into really deep depressions. And I saw that happening. So yeah, it was relief to say, “Oh, okay, we have a reason for this.” And I'm not gonna say that it was always sunshine and roses every minute of the day after that, but that my initial reaction was relief.
LAURA: Did you think at some point, you were going to be like, “Okay, we’re just going to stay married”?
BRI (Formerly Rick): Oh, yeah. For at least a year.
SUSAN: Yeah. That first year, that initial reaction – and people would say, so are you going to, you know, get divorced? I’m like, it's my intention to make this work. And, and I very much believed that, and I, and I think we both really did everything we could.
BRI (Formerly Rick): Yeah. We worked really hard.
SUSAN: Like, yeah, I was not going to just leave this person who I love. Yeah, so we worked on it. But again, that's where the self-reflection and, you know, really having to look at, okay, well, what do I want my life to be? And what do I want it to look like? And even if that means changing our relationship, you know, I owe it to myself to be honest about what I want. And that really sucked.
(Laughter)
LAURA: Sucked for you or sucked for -- now Bri?
SUSAN: For both of us.
BRI (Formerly Rick): Right, it sucked for both of us, because we you know, certainly the emotional connection was still there. It still is, right?
LAURA: Yeah.
BRI (Formerly Rick): We’re still best friends and see each other very regularly. And we support each other and so forth. So that part was still there. But you know, it was certainly hard to reconcile the physical differences that were occurring that first year.
LAURA: The things that you fell in love with might not be there.
SUSAN: Some of the things I fell in love with aren't there.
(Laughter)
BRI (Formerly Rick): Some of the things that grew, you didn't like.
(Laughter)
BRI (Formerly Rick): So …
LAURA: Yeah.
BRI (Formerly Rick): But we, you know, we tried to work through all these differences and really make it work and counseling and once again, communication, right? So we were very open with each other and communicating what our needs were and where things were going and concern for how the other was handling things and so forth. So all that was great, except, you know …
SUSAN: There were some really hard conversations that resulted in slammed doors and things.
BRI (Formerly Rick): Yes.
SUSAN: Yeah. And I'd say our period with that was very brief, fortunately, because we do talk a lot and we are such good friends and had such a strong relationship going into it. And you hear that a lot with spouses of transgender people, that feeling of bitterness. And I would say, I never had that feeling. I never, you know, I was always the underlying emotion has been, I’m so happy for Bri that she's figured this out. So you know, moments of anger but that passed pretty quickly -- actually, once we stopped living together. It was tough when we were still living together.
BRI (Formerly Rick): Yeah, once we decided that we were splitting but were still …
SUSAN: …living together was hell.
BRI (Formerly Rick): Yeah, that did not work out. We both realized that the other person deserves the ability to pursue a relationship where somebody can love and accept every part of them. And so it's like, neither one of us wanted to break up, but it was like, it's very clear that we're gonna…
SUSAN: That's what was gonna have to happen for us both to be happy.
BRI (Formerly Rick): Right.
SUSAN: Relationships can evolve, and they can look different, and we get to decide what that is. And I think that that's one of the guiding things that has helped me and Bri moving forward, is like because we get plenty of judgment. We get people we don't know who like have opinions about how we should be doing our divorce, how we should be doing whatever. And I don't care. It’s not their relationship. We get to choose …
BRI (Formerly Rick): Yeah.
SUSAN: …what it is.
LAURA: Bri and Susan are divorced now and living apart. But other than no physical intimacy, they are as close as ever. In fact, this summer they vacationed together in Florida, went scuba diving and paddleboarding. Bri told me she doesn't like when people call her brave, because she feels that revealing her dilemma was the only choice she had. But I think Bri and Susan are both courageous, because they each chose self-love first. And isn't that the most important love of all? Because that has to happen before you can truly love someone else.
Susan told me she's giving online dating ago, though right now she's just looking for something casual.
Finally, meet Nancy. She's now 75 and is a writing and editing consultant.
NANCY: I had various relationships. People used to ask me about why I wasn't married. And I said that I never met anybody I wanted to marry who wanted to marry me. I met some of each. But I never met the same – you know, both qualities in the same person. My mother taught me that happiness is an option that you have to choose. And that I was certainly not going to go through life being miserable. And you know, she said, you know, if you don't like a situation, you either have to change the situation, or you have to change how you feel about it. And so I decided that I was perfectly happy single. And I was.
LAURA: Nancy had a big journalism career in New York City. Over the years, she's built a full and happy life and basically does whatever she wants to do.
NANCY: I have a friend here, or a couple of them who refer to me as Why-Not Nancy.
LAURA: Oh, Why-Not Nancy.
NANCY: And so I kind of look at things and I think -- and you know, I was single; I was in charge of my life. And I would say well, you know, is there any reason that you shouldn't, you know, that you don't want to do this? But, you know, there are very few things that have long-term serious consequences.
LAURA: So when Nancy was 58 and presented with the opportunity to attend a tango dance, she finally decided, why not? She never dreamed how it would change her life.
NANCY: I had these image of tango dancers, couples romantically wrapped up in each other. And one of the ways I was a happy single woman was that I kept myself out of places that were going to make me unhappy.
LAURA: Mmm.
NANCY: And so I thought, you know, going out and hanging out with couples, you know, wrapped up in each other's arms, dancing all afternoon or all evening does not seem like a good thing that I want to do. So I just always said, “No, thank you.” And one day, my friend Jim called me up, and it was like February. And he said to me, “What are you doing on April 17?” And I'm like, “I have no idea what I'm doing in two months.” And he says, “Well, there's a tango band that comes plays in a restaurant a mile from your house. And we really need you to come because we're worried that not enough people are coming and they're going to cancel the band. So would you please, please come? You don't have to dance. I'm inviting other people who don't dance. I know you're not interested. I know you don't want to do that. But please, please, please, as a favor, would you come sit at the table, eat dinner, and come for the evening?” And so I’m like, I can do this.
I had Googled this at three o'clock in the afternoon before going. So I went upstairs in my closet. I had a black skirt with a slit up the side, a long skirt, and I put that on. And I put on a black sweater with a boatneck that I had, and I pulled my hair back. And I put on bright red lipstick. And I had a red, eye-popping necklace that I put on. And as I was walking out the house, I grabbed the red shawl off my winter coat. And so I showed up like this. And everybody's like, “Oh, perfect.”
LAURA: Okay, wait a minute. I'm wondering what you wore on your feet, though, as somebody who has bad knees.
NANCY: I actually had a pair of heels but they weren't very high, and they did actually have a strap across the instep.
LAURA: Oh, okay.
NANCY: Then guys started asking me to dance as the evening went on. And I kept saying, “I know nothing. This -- think of this, like, this is a costume. Think like Halloween, you know, I know nothing, nothing, nothing.” The dinner was good. And toward the end of the evening, one of the guys at the table said to me, “Just get up and come out on the dance floor with me, and I will whisper in your ear, I will tell you what to do here.”
LAURA: Hmm.
NANCY: And yeah, we made it through the song. And so I went back the next month, then I can't remember maybe one more month. And then I really do want to learn to do this.” Within six months, I was going to five tango classes a week.
LAURA: Wow.
NANCY: I was just completely bitten. And so as I approached 60, people started saying to me, “Oh, what are you going to do for your 60th birthday?” And I started saying, just to say something, “I think I'll go -- I'm going to Buenos Aires and dance tango.” And then I was out dancing one day, and I ran into a guy here who said, “Oh, there's a big tango festival in Argentina next March, and I'm gonna take a little group. Do you want to go?”
LAURA: Oh, wow.
NANCY: And my birthday is in April. So I thought well, that's close enough.
LAURA: Uh-huh.
NANCY: So I said, sure. I had a great time, but I didn't really get to see much of Argentina. And I didn't get to use my little bit of Spanish that I had. And so I thought, well, I'm coming back. So I went back a few months later with a guy I knew from dancing, but we were not a pair in any way. We were just friends. And his Spanish was better than mine, and his Tango was worse than mine. And so neither my tango nor my Spanish improved.
(Laughter)
NANCY: So I thought next time, I'm going by myself. So this, we're now up to trip three. You got to a milonga, and it's like an eighth-grade mixer, like most of the guys are on one side of the room. And most of the women are on the other side of the room.
LAURA: Oh.
NANCY: And there's something called a cabeceo. And if a man who's sitting on the other side of the room looks across the room at the women and gives her a nod…
LAURA: Hmm…
NANCY: And she can either nod back or she can turn her head or just act like she didn't see him.
LAURA: (Laughter) But the man has to make the first move?
NANCY: The man makes the first move.
LAURA: Okay.
NANCY: There are all kinds of rules in milongas. For example, once the man thinks he's made eye contact, and the woman has said yes, it is a rookie thing to do for the woman to stand up.
LAURA: Oh.
NANCY: She needs to wait until he walks all the way across the floor because it is possible that he was not looking at her, that he was looking at the woman behind her.
LAURA: Oh. Oh, gosh, this sounds really competitive. I don’t know.
(Laughter)
NANCY: Well, it depends on how you feel about it.
LAURA: Yeah, true. (Laughter)
NANCY: And so one Saturday afternoon, I'm sitting in the milonga. I'm sitting on the front row of where the women are, facing the dance floor. And I'm dancing some. And I noticed Luis.
LUIS: (Speaking Spanish)
LAURA: That's Luis. You heard him: He’s 80 and good-looking. He's been dancing since he was a child. And before he retired, he was an auto mechanic. Luis is divorced and has a son.
LUIS AND NANCY: (Speaking Spanish)
LAURA: And he asked Nancy to dance because he thought she was an attractive Spanish woman. They tangoed that day and again a few days later, and on the day before Nancy was about to leave, Luis asked her to please keep in touch.
NANCY: You have all been taught that Argentinian men are full of piropos, that they're going to say things to you like, “God needs to be careful because the angels are falling out of the sky.”
LAURA: (Laughter)
NANCY: So I'm thinking all of this is a game. All of it is a game.
LAURA: Yeah.
NANCY: I'm not paying one bit of attention to it.
LAURA: But after Nancy arrived home, she did write to Luis, and he wrote back. He asked her to please return to Argentina soon. So she did. She says she was going back anyway, and she still wasn't sure whether to take him seriously.
NANCY: He says to me, “I think you're going to be one of the great loves of my life.” And I said to him, “You mean one of the great loves of your afternoon?” Because I'm still thinking it's all a joke.
LAURA: Yeah. So when did you find out it wasn't a joke?
NANCY: Well, we went to dinner on Friday. We went out dancing, and then we went out to dinner. He took me out to dinner to a very famous old pizza place that was the main street in Buenos Aires. And, I guess I'm willing to say this. At the end of the evening, he walked me home. I invited him to come upstairs, and he never left.
LAURA: Oh! Me gusta. Me gusta, is that …
NANCY AND LUIS: (Speaking Spanish)
NANCY: We never made any decisions. We never decided to move in together. We never decided anything. We just simply didn't break up.
LAURA: Why-Not Nancy wound up moving to Argentina, where she and Luis lived and danced together. And then they got married here in the United States. That was eight years ago, Nancy's first and only marriage. So a chance meeting, and proof that when it comes to love and marriage, we're never too old. Nancy and Luis now go back and forth between the United States and Argentina. Because you know it takes two to tango. Oh, I’ve been wanting to say that!
So it's a wrap for Season 4. It'll be a minute before you hear from me again. Let's stay in touch. Send me a voicemail or an email. You can find the links on datingwhilegray.com. Let me know what you're reflecting on, what you found inspiring. Thanks for listening. Bye for now.
END CREDITS
Dating While Gray is produced in partnership with North Carolina Public Radio. For more on the show, check out datingwhilegray.com. That's also where you can find links for sending voicemails and emails. I'd love to hear from you. I'm Laura Stassi. Thanks for listening.