Charlie Shelton-Ormond: So, okay. All right. Anisa, do you want to tell people what's happening right now?
Anisa Khalifa: Yeah, we're in the studio. We're in the booth. We got our little blank sheets of paper. Charlie told me to bring a pen and myself. So I'm here.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Thank you. Okay. What I'm going to ask is that we both draw a picture of somebody riding a horse on this piece of paper.
Anisa Khalifa: Okay.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: You ready?
Anisa Khalifa: Let's do it.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Okay.
Anisa Khalifa: I haven't drawn a horse in a long time.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Start from the basics here.
Anisa Khalifa: All right. You know what? This is going to be me riding the horse.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Oh, nice. It's times like this. It's like, do I remember what a horse looks like? Okay, how's yours looking?
Anisa Khalifa: My horse has a weird smile on its face. Because I can't remember how a horse's mouth is supposed to look.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: I've got something on my paper, but it's not a horse. Let's compare. Alright, let's check it out. Let's see. Let's see. Yours is great. That looks fantastic.
Anisa Khalifa: Thank you.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: You ready?
Anisa Khalifa: Yeah, let's see it.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Here's mine.
Anisa Khalifa: Oh, I like the cowboy vibes.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Thank you.
Anisa Khalifa: Love, love the hat.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Now, I don't know if that's a horse. I'm going to say like a cross between a donkey and a rat. Okay, so now that we've drawn this on our piece of paper, Anisa, I want you to imagine drawing this on the side of a building.
Anisa Khalifa: Hmm. It's so much harder to scale up the size of something. You know, like, it's not going to look as cute. If you're drawing like a two square inch drawing, like it's very easy to make it look proportional, but then if you have to draw that over like 10 or 12 square feet, how do you make that look proportional? It's just very hard.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Yeah, it is incredibly hard. I've never done it myself, but I asked us to do this exercise because I was in Greensboro, North Carolina recently, and I saw a mural on the side of a building, and in the middle of it was somebody rearing a horse, and there were two things that stood out to me. One, the size of this mural really took my breath away. It was like a whole city block.
Anisa Khalifa: Wow.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: And two, how much this mural really popped. I mean, we've all seen examples of public art that is just kind of boring and nondescript, but you couldn't pass by this without really noticing it and being kind of transfixed by this mural. So, with that, I wanted to know more about how something like this, this kind of public art, is even possible, and meet the person who made it.
Anisa Khalifa: I'm Anisa Khalifa.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: I'm Charlie Shelton Ormond.
Anisa Khalifa: And this is the Broadside, where we tell stories from our home at the crossroads of the South. Today we’re launching a new kind of episode where we spend an ordinary day with someone doing something extraordinary. And this week, Charlie takes us along with him as he learns how a public artist brings her vision to life.
Dare Coulter: Singing, how could you do this to me? Oh, okay. Introduction. So, I am Dare Coulter. I am an artist, I'm a sculptor, I'm a muralist. The heads up I gave before, my house is a mess, this is what I mean. If you take note of this very industrial, um, wire here, we kind of don't really play by the rules. I'm a public artist. I am Black. I'm Black, y'all. I am the Coretta Scott King Illustrator Book Award winner for 2024.
That's my etching press, so it does really, really big things. This thing was made in like 1988, I believe. Yeah, so it's older than me. This is a laser. And I am eternally curious about life. And so for me, getting to make things is a gift. It's a blessing. It's very special.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Inside Dare Coulter's home studio, there's what seems to be a never ending collection of things Dare uses to bring her ideas to life. Her house in Wendell, North Carolina is a jam-packed playground of tools and devices.
Dare Coulter: So like that powers, I have a kiln that's over there, so that kiln fires ceramic stuff. There's an outlet on the wall for it to plug into. Because I'm an equipment girl.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: That's your furniture.
Dare Coulter: Right? Yeah. At a certain point I was like, yeah, what do I need a living room for?
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Sprinkled around the equipment is Dare's artwork. There's paintings, sketches, and sculptures. And when I met up with her, she was getting started on another project.
Dare Coulter: We're going to do water based clay. Okay. Let me actually pop open this plastic first. There we go. Ah.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: With a hunk of gray clay ready on the table, Dare propped up a printout of a woman's profile and got to work.
Dare Coulter: Yeah, it's a face profile of a black woman. Um, she's got really long eyelashes and they look really nice. And so I'm sculpting her in profile in the space of a circle. And it's going to be ugly for a while. Um, it'll be pretty later and that's okay. That's, man, that's actually something that, um, you have to learn with artwork too, is that, you know, part of the process is you're not going to like it when you start working on it.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Sculpting is a creative linchpin for Dare. She says its always given her a sense of calm, sculpting away usually in a private space, like her studio. And then there’s Dare’s murals — done in very public spaces, like the sides of buildings. She’s created murals of pretty much every size — some of them spanning more than a hundred feet long. They can be found in cities across North Carolina. Raleigh. Greensboro. Fayetteville. She’s put her stamp across the state.
Dare Coulter: When I'm working on murals, people will come up to me and they'll say, how are you gonna paint that? And I'm like, bro, I don't know. I don't, I don't know. I don't freaking know. Your guess is as good as mine. Cause you're standing there and you're like, I guess the math is not mathing because they're big! They're ginormous!
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: On the day I met up with her, Dare was on a mission.
Dare Coulter: Alright, we are about to, I need to get some socks so I can put my boots on so we can go to Top Greene.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Dare is an artist with a lot of irons in the fire. And tending to all of her projects means she's constantly on the go. Most of her projects are in the Raleigh area. And each one is different from the next. So, we hopped in her car to go on an adventure around town. In the car, Dare dove into her philosophy as a public artist. More specifically, the responsibility she feels whenever she creates something for somebody. And what that kind of art should embody.
Dare Coulter: You have to care more about what it means to the people who you're making the art for than to just do something because it's a paycheck. But when you consider that this is art that people have to live with, for me, it makes me want to make sure that it feels special, that it feels important. That people feel like you listened to them when you came there and created something.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Our first stop of the day: a community center just outside of downtown Raleigh.
Dare Coulter: So we are at Top Greene Community Center in Raleigh, North Carolina.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Dare's task for the day, get some inspiration for an upcoming project.
Dare Coulter: So I have a public art project here. I have three public art projects that are in this area. So, um, we are going today to take pictures of the history room. How's it going? I'm here to take pictures. Oh, I'm a public artist. You have a lot of stones. Yeah. This picture is so beautiful. I love this picture. And every time I'm here, I'm like, that's the one. Yeah.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: The walls inside this history room are full of pictures, videos, and portraits of the people and places that helped build this mostly Black neighborhood.
Dare Coulter: So right now, like taking pictures, I'm going to take a picture of everything I can, um, and then any specific pictures that I need.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: As she circled the room, there is one photo in particular that caught her eye.
Dare Coulter: That carousel, it's a wood carousel. It's been restored to its previous condition and like the original paint colors and stuff.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Dare pointed to a black and white picture of an old carousel. She says it's been in a park right down the road since the 1930s.
Dare Coulter: But that carousel, this park, people came here because segregation was happening and Black people weren't allowed to just go places and be safe and have fun. So Chavis Park was a place for that.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: It was clear the picture of this carousel ignited something in Dare. She lit up at how something like this can hold so much history and significance for a place.
Dare Coulter: There's so much that's involved in making a piece feel like it belongs to a space. Like, more so than the idea that it could be picked up, placed somewhere else, and still matter the same.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: And whether or not it ends up in her artwork, Dare sees this old carousel as an inspiration for the kind of work she does today — as a way to use art to do three things.
Dare Coulter: Art being a space for feeling and healing and celebrating. I think those are the three most important things that you can do with artwork, but also it's really cool that I get to do that in the projects that I'm working on currently. It's kind of each project has an underline of at least one, but a lot of times I get to have it be all three. And I think that's really cool.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Let's look at that first one.
Dare Coulter: Art as a space for feeling.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: After the community center, Dare and I traveled a few miles down the road to check out the carousel at Raleigh's Chavis Park.
Dare Coulter: Um, so this carousel is, you see like all the, the paint colors when they restored it.
Ride Announcer: For your safety and the safety of others, please listen to the following safety instructions. Please walk, do not run. Be prepared, the ride is about to start.
Dare Coulter: They repainted all the horses, repaired all the horses. And it's a, it looks like it would have looked in 1937.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: That's awesome.
Dare Coulter: I know it's not a part of my project. Um, but like knowing that length of history, I have an appreciation for feelings that are old that are joyful because there was so much badness that happened back at that time for Black people. And now you go to Chavis Park and their kids are playing in the splash park. And it's so cute. And they're so happy. It's joy, like I would consider myself the Black joy, a Black joy artist, right? Like that's my jam. That's the thing. Love it. And it's like with, with Black joy, you don't get to exclude pain from the story of Black joy, because there's this huge element of resilience. The Black joy wasn't just given. It's a hard fought thing.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: So Dare has her mantra: use art to feel, heal, and celebrate. And within that, amplify Black joy and some local history. But how do you do all that when you're not the only one controlling your paintbrush? What if there's a dozen people dictating what you make? Coming up, does making art by democracy mean compromising your creativity?
Dare Coulter: Okay, so where we are now, actually here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to leave this on.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: After our trip to the carousel, Dare and I ventured to the other side of Raleigh, to UNC Rex Hospital, to check out one of Dare's murals.
Dare Coulter: We are at the UNC Rex cancer center. It's their newest location, but um, cancer treatments happen here. And that's, that's all that happens in this building. We're here because I made this mural, and honestly, it's one of my favorite pieces that I've ever done.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: But before we went inside, Dare had something up her sleeve, literally, that she wanted to show me.
Dare Coulter: I shouldn't be in a long sleeved shirt. This is obscene. I'm very sweaty under there. Um, it says we're still flying towards our dreams. So this is a tattoo. I did this on myself, but it's my mom's handwriting. And it's from a Valentine's Day card, right? And so it's like, stuff like that really gets my goat, that's, like, stuff like that I think is really special.
I did a project that was for the Holt Brothers. So the Holt Brothers Foundation was created because the Holt Brothers' mother passed away from cancer. And they remember what it's like being kids who were, you know, seeing a family member through cancer and how frustrating and complicated that was.
And so the art piece that's here was created, um, about their mother, about their experience. And it's a motivational mural like there are signs that say, “we got you” and “you are not alone” and “this is tough, but so are you.” Um, and it features handwriting of people who lost their lives battling cancer. We'll take handwriting from parents who have died. The woman who is the counselor, I don't know if she's still there. I assume she's still there. Her father passed from cancer. So his handwriting is on a star. It's engraved on a star that's in that hallway because these are pieces from those people, right?
I believe this is her father's handwriting. And so it's like, “good luck, P. S. you're the greatest.” It's his handwriting, man! Not all people believe in like, ancestors and spirits and things like that, but I feel like they're physical artifacts that contribute spirit to something. Um, in a way that something that's not of that person doesn't get to do. And so it's like, you know, your father's handwriting is not the same as Times New Roman text. Um, these are two very different things, you know. Oh, there's a star. I need to put a new star up there. I need to come bring some stuff up there.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: Looking down this hallway, painted in a warm gold and blue, sprinkled with stars and encouraging handwriting and portraits of people hugging each other, it was clear to me this was bringing part of Dare's mantra to life and using her artwork to heal.
Dare Coulter: This is the best piece of soul that I think I've created in public art.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: The cancer center mural is a piece that came out as a kind of best case scenario for Dare. Make something for a specific group of people that helps bring them closer as a community. Check. Mission accomplished. But Dare admits, as a public artist, it's not always that easy.
Dare Coulter: There's always a moment where it gets spicy, um, when you're in a project where people care about their community. And it is a sign of care and regard, because, you know, if they didn't care, then they'd be like, yeah, whatever, do whatever, but there's a very clear and distinct plea that you don't disregard what the community members are asking for.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: And I can imagine that there's a negotiation between an artist's personal singular vision and what the public is telling you they want to get out of a project.
Dare Coulter: Let's say you ask a question that you say, well, what types of art are you looking for? And the difficulty is when people say, okay, I want art that's in a lot of places and I want art that's this specific type of art, you have to make compromise based on all the feedback that you've heard and determine, okay, I know that everybody wants these big bronze cast sculptures, but those are really expensive.
And if what I'm hearing from community members is that they want something that's realistic and representational, but they also want 12 of a thing instead of just one. So it comes down to making reasonable compromises based on the information that you have. But even when it does get spicy, it's still invigorating because it's problem solving. I don't feel annoyed for having had to go through a difficult moment to get to an outcome that's great and that makes everyone happy.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: For our final stop around Raleigh, Dare had to retrieve some pieces left over from an exhibit she was affiliated with at the North Carolina Museum of Art.
Dare Coulter: We're going here to pick up some of those pieces because that exhibit is long over.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: This way? Right here?
Dare Coulter: Yeah, and so Hey! How you doing? Hi! Okay, perfect. Thank you so much.
Unidentified Speaker: Oh, of course. Sorry I missed it the last time around. It was just hiding in the closet back there.
Charlie Shelton-Ormond: It was a fitting way to round out the afternoon. Just a few hours prior, she was busy taking pictures at that community center, brainstorming about an upcoming project. Now, here at the museum, she's closing the loop on a project that's in her rearview. She took a moment to reflect on how that plays into her mantra. Using art to feel, heal, and
Dare Coulter: To celebrate, like, even though it's taking those pieces out, celebration, like, you have to be able to celebrate the stuff that's over, too. This timeline thing is like, we're in different points of the process with all these projects, um, and being able to say, well, okay, that happened and that was cool. In art, you don't always have the opportunity to get to perfect, but you get to make it to done. Um, it doesn't have to be perfect. It has to be done – sometimes that's it. And I think you can consider things that happened as done and be proud of you and move forward into what's coming next. And so I think that's it. We're celebrating resolution and closure and like, that happened. And I'm proud that I was able to do that. It was there. That's so cool.
Anisa Khalifa: If you want to check out some pictures of Dare's artwork, we've included a link to her work in our show notes. There is also a link to Charlie and I's horse pictures, if you want to see those. And if you're around Durham, North Carolina, be on the lookout for Dare's next project. She'll have a few pieces at the renovated Wheels skating rink soon.
This episode of The Broadside was produced by Charlie Shelton-Ormond. Jerad Walker is our editor. Wilson Sayre is our executive producer. The Broadside is a production of WUNC-North Carolina Public Radio and is part of the NPR Network. You can email us at broadside@wunc.org. If you enjoyed the show, leave us a rating, a review, or share it with a friend. I'm Anisa Khalifa. Thanks for listening. Y'all we'll be back next week.