SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Prosecutors say that New York Mayor Eric Adams received bribes and solicited illegal campaign contributions from foreign sources. He's the third politician in just the last year who has been charged with crimes involving foreign powers - now, in Mayor Adams' case, Turkey. It was Egypt for New Jersey Senator Bob Menendez. And for Texas Congressman Henry Cuellar, it was Azerbaijan and a Mexican bank. We're going to turn now to Brandon Van Grack. He headed the foreign investment registration unit at the U.S. Justice Department and now specializes in foreign investment and sanctions in private practice. Thanks so much for being with us, Mr. Van Grack.
BRANDON VAN GRACK: Thank you for having me.
SIMON: Of course, Menendez has been convicted, but Mayor Adams and Representative Cuellar maintain their innocence. Are there more foreign interests trying to influence U.S. politics or more investigations and prosecutions?
VAN GRACK: Oh, there's an uptick, but I don't think it's a change in behavior in terms of politicians. It is more the fact that the U.S. government now is much more focused on this issue as a national security issue.
SIMON: And why? What raised the alarm?
VAN GRACK: It's really - you have to go back to 2016 and the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the presidential election. I think the U.S. government was largely caught flat-footed. And there was this realization that, actually, foreign government interference and influence could create even an existential threat for our democracy. And since that time, over the last eight years, there's really been a surge in resources and focus and a revitalization of certain laws such as the Foreign Agents Registration Act, which was used to prosecute Senator Menendez. And so I think what it is is you're just seeing the U.S. government focus a lot more on trying to identify these issues.
SIMON: When the Department of Justice does cite the Foreign Agents Registration Act, FARA, is that a way of telling politicians, we'll just file the paperwork, and there's no crime?
VAN GRACK: No. What it's signaling, and I think - let's go to Senator Menendez. They charged Senator Menendez with a law that had never been charged before. And it's not necessarily specifically signaling to, for example, politicians or individuals who could be influenced. They're sending a message to governments as well. I mean, these charges against Mayor Adams - they occur during U.N. week, where government officials from around the world were in New York. So part of this is the U.S. government sending a message saying, we're not just going to let this slide by anymore. We're willing to charge and, you know, expose some of this conduct.
SIMON: Yeah. But as I understand it, FARA was not cited with Mayor Adams. Do I have that correct?
VAN GRACK: That's exactly right. It was the focus, or the allegations were foreign campaign contributions. So it's sort of influence-related, but they haven't brought that charge, or at least they haven't brought that charge yet.
SIMON: Yeah. Do you believe, Mr. Van Grack, that the prosecutions are going to add to case law, whether they succeed or not, and strengthen the ability of governments to charge - U.S. entities to charge politicians on their dealings with foreign governments or foreign sources?
VAN GRACK: Well, that's really a great question because you're dealing with laws that actually have not been frequently charged, especially not before 2016. And so there is not a lot of case law. And so I think actually, it can go both ways, which is sometimes, when you're dealing with laws that have not been frequently charged, sometimes, when they actually go to court, you can get case law that undermines the ability...
SIMON: Yeah.
VAN GRACK: ...Of the government to pursue. So we actually don't know. I think we're still probably a couple years away to seeing whether these cases will be sort of interpreted in a way that will empower the U.S. government to keep doing what they're doing.
SIMON: And from what you've learned in your experience, is there more foreign interest in trying to influence U.S. politics that we haven't begun to get hold of?
VAN GRACK: Yeah. I don't think we have enough data points to say that there's been sort of an increase in terms of focus. I think this is something as old as the Republic, in terms of foreign governments seeking to influence policy and politicians. I do think, really, the most we can say right now is that it's really the U.S. government in particular focused on this issue, whereas before, perhaps they would have viewed this as, like, an intelligence issue, like espionage. I think it's more they view this as something they need to take more seriously.
SIMON: And so the prosecution would have been by people concerned with intelligence, but now you have local prosecutorial authorities getting involved.
VAN GRACK: That's right. And, like, the Foreign Agents Registration Act, like, that law - it's been here for 80 years, but, you know, it's possible it was never even mentioned on NPR before 2016. And it's just reflective of the fact that for decades, these laws were largely unenforced, and now you're seeing their enforcement.
SIMON: Brandon Van Grack is an attorney with the firm of Morrison - do I pronounce that correctly, Morrison Foerster?
VAN GRACK: That sounds right.
SIMON: All right. It seems to me we ought to - we owe you at least being able to pronounce (laughter) the name of your firm correctly. Thank you so much for being with us.
VAN GRACK: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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