MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Back to this country now and the 2024 election, our next guest is part of a team that conducts focus groups of voters who say they're undecided in this election, people who say they're skeptical of both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. Margaret Talev is a former White House reporter who now directs Syracuse University's Institute for Democracy, Journalism and Citizenship. Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET TALEV: Hi, Michel.
MARTIN: So do these voters who say they're undecided have some things in common?
TALEV: Well, they do. And like any other group, they're not monolithic, so they have - there are blocks of things in common. Some are undecided because they are truly torn. Some are undecided because they're trying to figure out if they want one of the major-party candidates or a third-party candidate. But the main thing that many undecided voters have in common is that they're what you would kind of put in the category of low-information voters. They're not tuned in every day to this race, and they are not, like, deep news consumers. So they may graze social media. They may watch their local channel, but they have not been getting this steady stream of information about - you might say, like, it's September. How could you not know the difference between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris? But for many of these voters, they're saying they still really haven't focused yet. And it's about 15% of the population, according to recent polling, so it is a lot of people.
MARTIN: It is a lot of people. So about 15% - OK. So with that being said, we have clips from three voters who participated in a focus group you conducted last week with undecided voters. And this particular group that you put together all happened to - they all identify as Latino. And we want to note that your institute and the companies you partnered with on this project agreed to only record and use the participants' first names for, you know, whatever reason - privacy, safety and so on. So let's start with Gloria (ph), who leans toward former President Trump.
GLORIA: I feel like I have to pick between the lesser of the two evils, and I think he's at least a known entity. I know what to kind of expect with him. She is going to go wherever the wind takes her. Like, I don't think she has any convictions. I'm not convinced.
MARTIN: So, Margaret, how widespread is this view of Vice President Harris among the voters that you asked?
TALEV: The one consistent comment that we heard again and again from the undecideds is that they feel like they don't really know her yet, which was ironic because we were coming right out of the Democratic National Convention, where she had spent a week trying to introduce herself to voters. But that only works if you're watching, and many of these - most of these voters had not been watching, or maybe they got little snippets.
MARTIN: So on the issue of abortion, let's hear - which is a big issue this election. Certainly, the Democrats are trying to make sure that it's a big issue. Let's hear from another undecided voter, Denise (ph), and you'll also hear the voice of the focus group moderator.
DENISE: I'm a firm believer in a woman's right to choose. And that's going to be what I base, maybe, my vote on.
UNIDENTIFIED MODERATOR: OK. Well, help me understand that - right? - 'cause before you told me you were going to take Trump, didn't you?
DENISE: I struggle. I struggle. I mean, had you not brought up the abortion issue, I may have just stayed where I was. But it is a struggle for me. I don't know what Kamala can do in four years for this. I really don't.
MARTIN: That's really interesting, Margaret, because even here on this issue - which, as I said, the Democrats are trying to make a signature issue and has been a signature issue for the vice president - voters still have questions about Harris.
TALEV: Yeah. But it was clearly her strongest sort of play or argument. For most of the voters that you could put in kind of a middle block - like, they're undecided because they like some things Republicans have to offer and some things Democrats have to offer - it was this issue about women's autonomy - not just abortion, but just women's decision - ability to make decisions about themselves in the context of the abortion conversation that most divided especially women voters.
So it seemed like if you're talking about the economy, a lot of these voters missed the pre-COVID days of Trump when goods and services were cheaper, and they felt like they had more money in their pocket. Many of them give Trump credit for that or at least blame the Biden-Harris team for the loss of that. But when it comes to both personal conduct and sort of the chaos factor and reproductive rights, they were much more interested in Harris and concerned about Trump.
MARTIN: OK. Our last clip comes from a different kind of undecided voter. Kevin (ph) says he disapproves of both Trump and Harris on the war in Gaza. This is a clip where he's reacting to the vice president's speech at the Democratic convention.
KEVIN: Instead of being more affront of having a cease-fire, which is the bare minimum, she said, well, yeah, we're going to do a cease-fire, and we've been working on it. But also Israel has the right to defend itself. And also we will have the most lethal military in the U.S., which is very Republican to say.
MARTIN: OK. Sounds like Harris has a lot of work to do. We heard from Margaret Talev, director of the Syracuse University Institute for Democracy, Journalism and Citizenship. Margaret, thank you.
TALEV: Thanks so much. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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