Last week, for the first time since 2017, the UNC Board of Governors voted to allow individual campuses to raise tuition.
Supporters of that vote argued that the increased revenue will help address years of deferred maintenance, inflation, and ongoing budgetary pressures from the state and federal government.
Art Pope was the lone vote against raising tuition, a position he has held consistently since joining the Board of Governors in 2020.
Pope has been one of the most important figures in North Carolina and national Republican politics for the past several decades, both through monetary support and through a network of think tanks and advocacy groups. He has also been a state legislator and a State Budget Director, in addition to serving as chairman and president of Variety Wholesalers, which owns and operates Roses, Maxway, and Big Lots.
WUNC's Higher Education Reporter Brianna Atkinson spoke with Pope during a break at last week’s Board of Governors meeting.
This conversation has been lightly edited for brevity and clarity.
You've always supported keeping tuition low for students. Could you expand on why that's good for the state?
"North Carolina families and the students themselves have been paying North Carolina taxes. And the general fund — it's a major source of funding for the University System, bigger than any other source of funds. So, given they're already taxpayers and we're tax supported, we should keep tuition low for in-state students. And in fact, it is a constitutional mandate. The North Carolina Constitution mandates that higher education be ‘as free as practicable’ to the people of the state — not free — but free as in practice. So that constitutional mandate should be honored at all costs."
What's your solution for the revenue that universities say they're losing out on? How do you suggest they fill that gap?
"We've had higher inflation in the cost of higher education over the last 20 years, last 10 years than any other sector of the economy. The only other sector of more rapid increases has been healthcare. So, what we need to do is bend the cost curve and make education more cost-effective. In almost any other sector of the economy, you have to lower costs by being more efficient; and with modern technology we're able to do that with better employment practices, better management of resources. So, I don't think we should increase the revenue. We should lower the cost and give priority to our academic mission of teaching and research."
Do you think there should be any state allocation for universities that's increased to help with that?
"Generally, the state allocations increase every year automatically starting with the enrollment increases. If you look over the funding from the General Assembly, our funding per student is higher than any other of the major top 10 states by population. There are a few states like Alaska and Hawaii with unique circumstances, their remoteness, that have higher expenditures per student — but of all the major universities, we're already supporting it with public funding at a higher level than most other states."
Editor’s note: While North Carolina has, in past years, led the top-ten most populous states in state funding per student, the most recent data from the State Higher Education Executive Officers Association (SHEEO) shows that North Carolina is third in funding per student among the top ten most populous states.
Are you going to continue fighting for keeping tuition flat?
"Oh yes. That's part of the small 'd' democratic process, including the Board of Governors, that the minority be heard and the majority prevail. But more importantly, I don't want this year's tuition increase to set a precedent for additional tuition increases every single year hereafter. Now we've broken the freeze, we shouldn't have repeated tuition increases.
You hear about the miracle of compound interest on your savings and investments. Well, it's a nightmare of compound cost increases. So, I don't want future tuition increases on top of this tuition increase — and see the rapid increase in that cost of university education that we saw back after the 1991-1992 budget shortfall, the 2001 budget shortfall, the 2009-2010 budget shortfall. We don't need to go back to relying on tuition increases to fund spending. We haven't done a good enough job yet trying to identify savings that preserve the quality of education."
In (Wednesday's budget and finance committee meeting) you mentioned Purdue University and the University of Florida and some of the things they've been doing to keep tuition flat. Is there anything that they've been doing in particular that you feel could be brought to North Carolina as a strategy?
"Yes, especially for the larger campuses. What Purdue University did; one they looked after nickel and dimes. That adds up to millions of dollars in savings that can go to faculty pay and supporting the academic mission. Second, they fixed their overhead, their administrative costs, while they increased enrollment. As we heard from UNC-Chapel Hill in a separate presentation, they (used to) enroll 5% of North Carolina's high school graduates – that's down to 3.5%. So, there's a high demand for UNC-Chapel Hill.
So increasing enrollment, faculty in proportion to that enrollment; but fixed overhead, fixed administrative costs — that will lower the average cost, so we can keep tuition lower."
WUNC partners with Open Campus and NC Local on higher education coverage.
