Updated September 30, 2024 at 10:02 AM ET
Nobel Laureate Muhammad Yunus saw the trajectory of his life change after student-led protests this summer resulted in his installation as the interim leader of Bangladesh.
Autocratic former Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina fled to India in early August, as tens of thousands of demonstrators stormed her residence protesting against her leadership and a job quota system that favored certain groups.
Yunus saw these events unfolding from about 5,000 miles away in Paris, where he was attending the summer Olympics. Back then, he still faced possible jail time in Bangladesh on embezzlement charges, which he alleged was Hasina’s political prosecution.
But hours after Hasina’s ouster on Aug. 5, Yunus received a phone call. He was asked to serve as special advisor to the interim government. It was a “very strange turn of events,” he told NPR’s Morning Edition on Sept. 27 in New York City.
A 2006 Nobel Laureate, Yunus is known for founding Grameen Bank and pioneering small loans for low income people as a way to fight poverty. When he was mired in legal trouble at home, world leaders from Barack Obama to former U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon expressed solidarity.
After Yunus spoke at the UN General Assembly, he sat down with NPR’s Michel Martin.
The following interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
Michel Martin: When we talked this past summer, you were on trial on corruption charges, and now here you are representing Bangladesh on the world stage. That is some turn of events. Are you surprised to find yourself in this position?
Muhammad Yunus: A very strange turn of events. Before I was sworn in as a chief adviser, I was in Paris trying to see if I go back, I'll be arrested, because she will be angry at me and put me in jail. So I was thinking of delaying my return. And suddenly I got a phone call from Bangladesh that now she has left. We want you to be the head of the government. That was a big surprise.
Martin: What went through your mind when you got that phone call?
Yunus: Whether I should get involved in running the country at all. It’s a very difficult political situation. But when the students called me up and explained what the situation is, finally I said, “Yes, you have given lives for this. If you can give lives, I can remove all my other considerations. I can be of your service. I'll do that.”
Martin: And when you say you've given life, you were not exaggerating and it was not a metaphor.
Yunus: No, it’s not a metaphor. People die. Nearly a thousand young people died, stood in front of the gun to take bullets. Literally, young people came and sacrificed themselves. When they are coming out of their homes to join the demonstrations, they’re saying goodbye to their parents. They're saying goodbye to their siblings; ‘I may not come back.’ That's the spirit in which the whole thing happened. And finally, it was so unbelievable. The Prime Minister decides to leave the country because the whole mob is coming towards her home.
Martin: On the one hand, these demonstrations led to the departure of this wildly unpopular and by some accounts corrupt leader. But in those chaotic first days, there were attacks against Ahmadis and Hindus. Some of it was related to their loyalty to Sheikh Hasina’s party. Some of it seemed to be just simply attacks against minorities. Those have subsided. But since then, there have been more attacks, this time on Sufi mosques, and according to our reporting, there has been more than 20 vigilante killings, murders by mobs of people since she was ousted. Why is this happening?
Yunus: People are in the mood for revolution. So this is a revolutionary situation. They were killed. So they are looking for people who made their colleagues die. So people were attacking the followers of the party headed by Sheikh Hasina. When you say minority community being attacked, that minority community, particularly Hindu community, was associated with her. So you cannot distinguish whether they were attacked because they're followers of Sheikh Hasina or they were attacked because they are Hindu. But they were attacked, that's for sure. But then we took over the government and tried to bring peace. I kept telling everybody that we may have differences of opinion. That doesn't mean we have to attack each other.
Martin: Do you think that you can redirect people to focus on reform rather than revenge?
Yunus: Revenge period was only a couple of weeks maybe. But then normalcy started coming back so we are running the country. But there are demonstrations, not revenge demonstrations. Most of the demonstrations are about demanding their pay rises, demanding their jobs, which they were fired from before by the regime. So they said, we are mistreated by the past government and we lost our jobs for nothing – because we happened to belong to another political party. So everybody is trying to settle their scores because they were deprived. We were trying to convince them. Look this is 15 years of your grievances. We cannot solve it in 15 days. Give us some time so that we can go back. You have a very difficult situation and we have to resolve it so that it's done systematically.
Martin: Speaking of time, the army is behind you. Military leaders have said the interim government should rule for 18 months. That's not what the opposition parties wanted. They wanted elections in November. Is 18 months enough time to do what you need to do?
Yunus: People are throwing out these numbers. How many months, how many years as they feel are needed. Some say it should be done quickly because if you go longer and longer, you'll be so unpopular and everything will be messed up. Some say no, you have to finish the reform. So you stay this long period because we don't want to get to Bangladesh 2.0 without fixing everything. So this is the debate going on.
Martin: You know, it's almost like you're talking about an entire rebuilding of civil society.
Yunus: That’s precisely what version 2 means. We don't want to go back to the old style. Then what is the meaning of giving all these lives? It has no meaning because everything that we did, we destroyed everything. So we have to begin to build a new one.
Martin: You know, it's challenging, but it also is exciting isn’t it?
Yunus: It's very exciting. You look at the negative. I look at it in a very positive way. I said this is the greatest opportunity this nation got. Never, ever, all these people, the country is unified on one thing: We need change
Martin: You are 84. And I don't know that you ever saw yourself as a head of government, as a head of state. Do you think that you will see Bangladesh become the country that you hope it will be in your lifetime?
Yunus: Not the ultimate. But I will be very happy, it’s on the way. Institutions are right. Policies are right. Young people are committed to change the world that they belong to and they play a role within the country and a global role. When we talk about climate change, we are the victims of climate change. But we have to work together. I always give importance to the youth because they are the ones who will be building the future and they should be in the leadership position anyway, because this is the planet they have to inherit. You mentioned I'm 84. I don't have a long part ahead of me, but they have their whole life ahead of them.
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