These days, the superhero blockbuster is nearly synonymous with the very state of the film industry.
For nearly 20 years, heroes from both the Marvel and DC universes have seemed all powerful, setting the tone and financial picture for Hollywood as they battled evil in every form.
But as one late, fictional uncle Ben urges Peter Parker, (AKA Spider-man) "With great power comes great responsibility."
So, are the studio executives and creatives behind the latest superhero movies wielding that power responsibly?
All Things Considered host Scott Detrow sat down with Glen Weldon, cohost of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour and author of the book "Superman: The Unauthorized Biography," and All Things Considered producer Marc Rivers, to discuss the matter.
On the latest releases
For starters, our panel honed in on two of the most recent superhero films to hit theaters: Superman and The Fantastic Four: First Steps
To Weldon, these films are less like reboots, and more like resets.
"I think both of these movies... are doing exactly what needs to be done after many, many years of subpar superhero movies, which were subpar because they all labored under the same delusion," Weldon said.
"And that delusion is that what audiences want out of superheroes is, across the board, groundedness and realism and relevance. That's dumb. It's always been dumb. We need a break from that."'
Weldon believes that a brighter outlook and a lighter tone is what has helped these films land with audiences.
So, what other major films did our panelists discuss as the standout superhero films of the last few decades?
The Dark Knight (2008)
Weldon and Detrow cite this 2008 smash hit as the likely moment the culture around our heroes on screen shifted from light to dark.
The gritty, brooding Batman remake featuring the late Heath Ledger's iconic Joker was a resounding success. But to Weldon, it was also the source of the curse that every other Superhero movie suffered from in the years that followed.
"Hollywood loves a formula, and both Marvel and Warner are guilty of deciding that if something works once, it's going to work every time regardless of the character, and that's their fatal flaw."
Weldon says that the subsequent films of the 2010s ignored the appeal of the comics and their many stories, and attempted to paint every hero with a broad brush to create uniformly dark and edgy storylines.
Spider-Man 2 (2004)
For Rivers, the second film of Sam Raimi Spider-Man trilogy is an exception to his not-very-into-superhero -movies rule. So what made it work for him?
"It was probably the time before the kind of dominance of superhero movies, when they were still kind of finding their footing, forging their own paths, and there wasn't already a well-paved path to trod and to follow again and again."
This Spider-Man film, Rivers argues, feels content not being a superhero movie, even though it has the action scenes.
"It has the colors and the lively cast," Rivers adds, citing one particular scene that elevates the film to another level.
"It's when Peter Parker is telling the truth to his Aunt May about his kind of inadvertent role in the death of Uncle Ben," he explains.
"There's a moment where Peter rests his hand on Aunt May's hand and she just lets it slide out from under his. And it's so delicate and so painful. You want to look away. That scene just has an emotional range that eludes so many other comic book movies for me."
The Incredibles (2004)
For Weldon, the best superhero movie of all time is the Pixar family classic, The Incredibles.
"It's not tied down to IP. It's not beholden to anything. It is just its own thing, and it's also animated, which means you can take the fact that there's no special effects budget on a comic book page, and just explode it, and just be a movie that makes you want to cheer!" Weldon said.
"I mean, these movies model a kind of selflessness and empathy and drive to make the world a better place, and that movie did it great." he said.
Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse (2023)
For a more recent entry, Rivers cites 2023's animated Spider-Man: Across the Spider Verse as one of the best in recent decades. It's the second film that follows Miles Morales (also Spider-Man) in his journey across the multiverse.
Rivers says Spider Verse is an, "explosion of creativity and imagination on the screen. And you can tell the artists involved are trying things and taking risks." he added.
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