AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
As candidates, former President Donald Trump and current Vice President Kamala Harris don't have a lot in common. But it's hard to imagine an issue where their views could be more different than education. Trump, in a recent interview with Elon Musk on X, said this would be one of his top priorities if reelected.
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DONALD TRUMP: What I'm going to do - one of the first acts - and this is where I need an Elon Musk. I need somebody that has a lot of strength and courage and smarts. I want to close up Department of Education, move education back to the states.
RASCOE: And in her DNC speech, Harris had something to say about that.
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VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: We are not going to let him eliminate the Department of Education that funds our public schools.
RASCOE: And that's just one of several big education ideas where Trump and Harris fundamentally disagree. NPR education correspondent Cory Turner is going to help us unpack some of those differences. So let's start with this fight over closing the Department of Education. Why does Trump say that he wants to do this?
CORY TURNER, BYLINE: Well, I think Trump sees the education department really as a bastion of liberal bureaucracy and government overreach. He has said as much over and over. Here's the thing, though - closing the department isn't as easy as he makes it sound. It was created by Congress in 1979, and only Congress can close it. There just hasn't been enough support for that in Congress.
And I should say, some Republicans have tried to do it. The bills just never go anywhere. In fact, I wrote a story eight years ago about then-candidate Trump saying he would consider closing the Ed Department. Well, he became president, and he had Republican control of both houses of Congress - didn't do it.
RASCOE: Yeah. We heard Vice President Harris saying no way to the idea of closing the Education Department. Why are Democrats so protective of it?
TURNER: Well, Democrats see a lot of variation and inequity in the way our schools are funded and really managed locally and state by state. And it's worth saying that the money the Ed Department sends to schools - more than $30 billion worth - is really focused on helping the most vulnerable kids in the system - those with disabilities and those who live in low-income communities. And not only that, but the department can use those federal dollars to exert some control of its own to make sure schools are being equitable. And I think, Ayesha, it's really this power that the Department has as a kind of protector of the marginalized that really divides Democrats and Republicans. It actually divided Harris and Joe Biden when they were both running for president five years ago.
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HARRIS: I was part of the second class to integrate Berkeley, Calif., public schools almost two decades after Brown v. Board of Education.
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Because your city council made that decision - it was a local decision...
HARRIS: So that's where the federal government must step in...
BIDEN: The federal government must step...
HARRIS: That's why we have the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act.
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HARRIS: That's why we need to pass the Equality Act. That's why we need to pass the ERA because...
BIDEN: That...
HARRIS: ...There are moments in history where states fail to preserve the civil rights of all people.
BIDEN: I have supported the ERA...
TURNER: The power the department has, Ayesha, to really push a civil rights agenda is one of many reasons, really - I think we heard Harris at the DNC make very clear, she stands firmly behind the Ed Department.
RASCOE: Talking about rights - where are the candidates on the heated debate over education and gender identity?
TURNER: This is a big one. So in April, the Biden-Harris administration expanded protections under Title IX against sex discrimination in schools to include sexual orientation and gender identity. For example, students should be allowed to use the bathroom or the locker room that corresponds with their gender identity. But roughly half of all states have now sued the department, and a federal court has blocked the rule in those states.
Now, to give you a sense of just how important Republicans think this issue is, I was on an RNC call earlier this week with reporters that was billed as an education call, but it was entirely about how Trump opposes Democrats', quote, "radical gender ideology." Trump has said, if he's elected, he's going to roll back these Title IX changes on Day 1.
RASCOE: What else have Trump and Harris said about their education plans that's worth noting here?
TURNER: Sure. So Donald Trump is pushing what he calls a Parents Bill of Rights, and that includes what he's calling universal school choice, which would, in theory, try to take the money that's normally spent on a child's education in school and give it directly to parents to spend on whatever schooling they want, even if it's in a private school. He's also pushing measures that would make it easier to fire teachers.
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TRUMP: As the saying goes, personnel is policy. And at the end of the day, if we have pink-haired communists teaching our kids, we have a major problem. When I'm president, we will put parents back in charge and give them the final say.
TURNER: As for Harris and the Democrats, they are against using public dollars in private schools, and they are for universal preschool for all 4-year-olds and expanding the child tax credit. On the higher ed front, Harris doesn't seem to be making any new promises around student loan relief. But she has talked about the millions of borrowers who have already been approved for loan forgiveness because of previous Biden-Harris administration changes.
RASCOE: And before we go, do the candidates' VP picks stand out in any way for their education views?
TURNER: I mean, I think it is clear for both Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and Ohio Senator JD Vance that they really reaffirm their running mates' positions. Walz, obviously, is a former public school teacher. He's combative and proud about his service in schools. And I think that's really powerful symbolically for a party where teachers' unions are such a strong part of the base. And Vance has talked a lot about higher ed and specifically in opposition - which Donald Trump shares with him - in opposition to affirmative action and efforts around diversity, equity and inclusion.
RASCOE: That's NPR's education correspondent Cory Turner. Thank you so much.
TURNER: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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