GLYNN WASHINGTON, HOST:
Welcome back to the SNAP JUDGMENT, from PRX and NPR, the "Unrequited" episode. My name is Glynn Washington, and have you ever had a song that you just cannot, cannot get out of your head? Well, this week you can blame SNAP JUDGMENT's Stephanie Foo. You're welcome.
(SOUNDBITE OF THIRD EYE BLIND SONG, "SEMI-CHARMED LIFE")
MARK HAWTHORNE: (Singing). Do-do-do, do-do-do-doo, do-do-do...
STEPHANIE FOO, BYLINE: Yeah.
HAWTHORNE: Right?
FOO: It was around 1997 that Marc Hawthorne first heard it.
HAWTHORNE: "Semi-Charmed Life," and I felt like I was probably too cool for Third Eye Blind. I knew it was, like, this big popular band. But I heard this song, and I was like, OK, fine. I love this song, and I'm just going to be OK with that.
FOO: He bought all their albums, went to all their shows to see their lead singer, Stephan Jenkins, in action.
HAWTHORNE: Yeah, I may have, like, started building up a fanboy crush or whatever on this guy.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "CRUSH")
JENNIFER PAIGE: (Singing) It's just some little thing, not like everything I do depends on you.
FOO: And he could only dream of a bromance between him and Stephan Jenkins until he got a job as the editor of the entertainment section of the San Francisco Onion. And he set up an interview with Stephan Jenkins.
HAWTHORNE: He drove up on his motorcycle, which was pretty perfect because, you know, they have the song "Motorcycle Driveby." I mean, not to get too crazy about it, but there was something sort of, like, magical when, like, he, like, pulls off his helmet, and it's, like, him. I was very excited. I was very nervous.
FOO: But the interview went well - super well.
HAWTHORNE: The thing that was so amazing just right off the bat is that he was expressing, like, how much he loved the Onion, and he would stop every once in a while and apologize to me for not being funny enough.
FOO: They talked for two hours. And they got along so well, Stephan Jenkins invited Marc to come over to his house and listen to the record he was working on.
HAWTHORNE: The whole time I was just like, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm, like, hanging out with Stephan Jenkins. Like, this is really happening.
FOO: Jenkins kept an email contact with Marc. He invited him to his place to hang out and invited him to a couple of parties.
HAWTHORNE: You know, like, I knew that we weren't best friends. But it felt - it actually felt real.
FOO: Marc started trying really hard to impress Stephan. He'd write positive articles about Third Eye Blind as often as he could for the Onion. And he started to take their relationship a little too seriously.
HAWTHORNE: When I'd send an email to Stephan Jenkins and I didn't get a reply in a week, I would be talking to my girlfriend, I would be talking to other friends of mine, just like, look at what the email said. Like, is this bad? Did I write him a bad email?
FOO: You're, like, obsessing, right? Like, you are overanalyzing things?
HAWTHORNE: Oh, I overanalyze everything.
FOO: Then Marc traveled to South By Southwest to see Third Eye Blind play. And he wrote another review of their performance. But this time it wasn't just overwhelmingly positive.
HAWTHORNE: And that's where - as far as I remember, was like the first time I had finally admitted, like, I love Third Eye Blind, and I know that it's, like, a super guilty pleasure. I don't know, maybe, like, a week later or something he wrote an email to me. He's like, oh, yeah, I read your review. And then he points out, I saw you in the crowd. And I was like, oh, my God, like, maybe he was actually looking out for me.
FOO: So it was all good, right?
HAWTHORNE: Soon after, they shut - The Onion shut down the San Francisco office. I didn't have a job anymore, but I also didn't have the @theonion.com email address to send to him anymore. Like, I probably, like, wrote to my mom and said, hey, mom, I got laid off, like, I'm not going to be working for a while. And then boom, second email was to Stephan Jenkins, like, hey, buddy, you know, like, this is the email address you should use for me. And nothing - I got nothing back. And, like, I maybe sent another email, like, two or three weeks later. Oh, it was sad. It was pathetic. And I'm just realizing, like, oh, my God, like, it's all falling apart.
FOO: Marc kept going to Third Eye Blind shows. He would always try to say hi to Jenkins. He'd wave from the front row, but Jenkins would just look right through him.
HAWTHORNE: And I started thinking like, oh, wow, like, maybe he was enamored with me because I worked for The Onion. And so he - that's all he ever cared about with me. Like, why he really would have cared, like, I don't know. Definitely, like, having this experience with Stephan Jenkins, like, has made, like, listening to Third Eye Blind songs, like, have, like, different meanings to me.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HOW'S IT GOING TO BE")
THIRD EYE BLIND: (Singing) How's it going to be when you found out there was nothing between you and me because I don't care? How's it going to be?
FOO: Marc felt like he lost a beautiful relationship. But I had to wonder, was there really anything to lose in the first place? And we decided to find out.
So you want to describe where we are, Marc?
HAWTHORNE: We are in Stephan Jenkins' studio.
STEPHAN JENKINS: How are you?
HAWTHORNE: Good. How are you?
JENKINS: This is great.
HAWTHORNE: Good to see you.
JENKINS: Good to see you. Great shoes, Marc, really.
HAWTHORNE: Oh, thanks.
FOO: If you might want to just introduce yourself, that would be awesome.
JENKINS: My name's Stephan Jenkins.
FOO: Do you remember why you chose to enter into an acquaintance with Marc? Did you like him?
JENKINS: Yeah, he just seems like somebody who would be part of my friend group. He's clearly very bright, and he's really into music. And he's articulate about it, and he's got a point of view.
FOO: That's very nice of you to say.
JENKINS: (Laughter) Yeah.
HAWTHORNE: I'm glad you asked because I wouldn't have wanted to ask that question. So I guess my first question has to be, like, what did I do wrong?
JENKINS: What did you do wrong?
HAWTHORNE: Yeah. Where did things go wrong between us?
JENKINS: Well, I think that they didn't go wrong. I think that we had a successful acquaintance. And I think that if one person is measuring an interaction by the standards of an acquaintance and the other one is measuring it from the status of a friendship, one in which they know all about you because they've divined so much about you from your lyrics, someone's going to get hurt. (Laughter) In this instance, it was you, Marc.
HAWTHORNE: OK, OK.
JENKINS: Right?
HAWTHORNE: So in other words, you're saying I shouldn't take it personally. This is just the way things happen in the world?
JENKINS: What happened first of all, you said is the way things happen, so let's try to understand.
HAWTHORNE: OK.
JENKINS: What happened?
HAWTHORNE: Well, that's what I was trying to understand. What happened? So I felt like when The Onion shut down the San Francisco office, suddenly I was having to - when I was following up with you, I was having to email you from my home email address, and then that's when everything stopped.
JENKINS: Really?
HAWTHORNE: I never...
JENKINS: What stopped?
HAWTHORNE: I never heard - you stopped...
JENKINS: I just didn't...
HAWTHORNE: You didn't reply.
JENKINS: I just didn't respond.
HAWTHORNE: You didn't respond. And so there was - I mean, I'm not a real stalker.
JENKINS: Has there ever been a stalker who said, I'm a real stalker?
HAWTHORNE: Yeah, I guess so.
JENKINS: OK.
HAWTHORNE: I suppose - I suppose that's a...
JENKINS: So was that twice that you emailed me without a response?
HAWTHORNE: I think it may have been three times.
JENKINS: Three times.
HAWTHORNE: Yeah, I think there may have been three different emails.
JENKINS: Yeah, I think three times is kind of the rule.
HAWTHORNE: Yeah.
JENKINS: Three times unresponded, then that's not good.
HAWTHORNE: Right. I knew it was over. I recognized that. But then I was like - like, I'm being really genuine here. I felt like you had taken it to, like, this next level of being, like, a super nice guy. Before I had ever even met you, like, everybody was like, oh, he's this big, egotistical jerk. And this could not have been more different. And...
JENKINS: Yeah, I'm focusing on, like, everybody? Like, what?
HAWTHORNE: What?
JENKINS: It's OK.
HAWTHORNE: Oh, the egotism? No. I mean, whatever. Not everybody because I obviously didn't know any of your friends. These were just things that had been written, what have you. And then when I didn't hear back, I think that was - I was actually kind of hurt.
JENKINS: I'm sorry.
HAWTHORNE: It's OK. I mean, it's water under the bridge.
JENKINS: I certainly didn't mean to hurt your feelings. And I don't know. I really doubt - and there certainly wasn't, like, a conscious choice not to. I think, though - I think the exchange that goes on between a journalist and an artist is actually - is the inverse of what you're talking about. I'll elaborate on that if you want.
HAWTHORNE: Yeah, please explain.
JENKINS: Well, I'm still subject to your judgment. It seems to me, if I could just propose this is, you seem to want both. You want to have the idea of being friends, but you also want to - you want to assess me and evaluate me as a journalist.
HAWTHORNE: Right. And that was the beginning of how this all started...
JENKINS: Right.
HAWTHORNE: The assessment part.
JENKINS: Right, but I was always being assessed.
HAWTHORNE: Yeah, I guess you're right. Sure.
JENKINS: Because once - I mean, it's like you never put the pen down. You write about me as being a guilty pleasure. I don't have any friends with whom I'm a guilty pleasure. I'm just a pleasure.
HAWTHORNE: Right.
JENKINS: So you're still judging me, right? It might...
(CROSSTALK)
JENKINS: It might be tongue-in-cheek...
HAWTHORNE: Right.
JENKINS: But that's still what's going on. So I enjoy that, but to the people with really - like, tight in the braid with me, is that their perception of me? It's not.
HAWTHORNE: Right.
JENKINS: I'm trying - what I'm trying to say, it wasn't me evaluating and judging you. Actually, I think it was the verse. It's that you were evaluating and judging me.
HAWTHORNE: Can I take from that that, like, any idea of a true friendship ever happening - we were kind of doomed from the beginning?
JENKINS: No. I think it's ongoing. Life is long.
HAWTHORNE: Oh, OK.
JENKINS: I'm enjoying your company right now.
HAWTHORNE: Excellent.
JENKINS: Yeah, this is working for me.
FOO: From - I feel like we've worked some stuff out. I feel like we've hashed out your feelings.
JENKINS: All right.
FOO: If Marc - if Marc is in the front row of one of your shows now, and he's waving at you...
JENKINS: Oh, I'm going to throw him a pick for sure.
HAWTHORNE: Yeah.
(HIGH-FIVE)
JENKINS: Yeah.
HAWTHORNE: That's what I want.
FOO: Awesome.
JENKINS: Hey, we're going to play a little show this fall. And we're going to play the Fillmore. That's in San Francisco.
HAWTHORNE: I've been there before.
JENKINS: Yeah, and I'd love to have you. I'd like to put you on the list.
HAWTHORNE: Really?
JENKINS: Just give me your email, man.
HAWTHORNE: I really appreciate that.
JENKINS: There.
HAWTHORNE: Now, I just wanted to give him my email address, and so this all worked out. The end.
JENKINS: There it is.
HAWTHORNE: Call me.
(LAUGHTER)
WASHINGTON: Thanks so much to Stephan Jenkins and Marc Hawthorne for that piece. Third Eye Blind will be going on tour this winter. So go party with Marc and Stephanie in the very front row.
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